These are certainly valid opinions and should be respect as such. I think in time after a good 9 months to a year we can see how well the Honda domination argument holds… by popular opinion this could very well be true. I’m sure in due time after playing hundreds if not thousands more Honda VS 'Gief match-ups my opinion could sway as well (in either direction).
Thanks for posting the info!
Are you just throwing out numbers dude? Really? 8-2, 9-1? C’mon man, be serious.
It was serious. How would you favor the Ryu VS Honda match-up? We all know Honda eats Ryu’s fireballs and still falls victim to the jumping into-sweep trap. His jab headbutt isn’t dangerously effective against a gunslinging Ryu. Again, how would you rate the match-up? Historically Honda has always been Ryu’s bit*h… I don’t see how HDr is any different.
do i even have to reply to this now since you just got proved wrong by skankin and still refuse to see it? your reply was along the lines of “well I STILL LIKE MY OPINION MAYBE IN TIME I CAN SEE THE BEST GIEF PLAYERS IN THE WORLDS OPINIONS”
Legend of josh=troll and/or scrub who doesn’t know the difference between opinion and well established fact:rofl:
If it’ll get your rocks off, I’ll say YES POPULAR OPINION IS MORE FACT than my less commonly accepted opinion (even though others do share the same). So there, I’ve agreed the common community opinion > mine. LOL, are you content now? I hope you don’t splatter your load all over your keyboard after reading that. Jesus Christ people, this is a message board where different opinions are to be shared and discussed. Stop posting on PMS. This is what, my 3rd of 4th request?
I’m sorry, but I’m not going to automatically agree with others on the subject simply b/c someone else said so. It’s going to have to come from game-play experience, and I’ve been out of the country for a long while now, and only have about a month of experience playing this game before I left. You’ll have to excuse my n00bness fellas, thanks!
LOL @ “well established fact” … we simply share different mindsets on how we view opinions that’s all.
Ryu’s fireball = D+halfcircle+P = fact
Honda rapes 'Gief = opinion (not fact)
You’re a wanna-be tough guy on the internets yet offline you still bite your mom’s tit like you’re real-life Blanka = fact
You guys need to loosen up… it’s obvious I’m not a troll… and I’d love to play some of you guys to “establish the fact” I’m not a scrub.
so wait why are you tryin to argue you with people who have had YEARS of experience with this game? as far as the gief v honda matchup goes, not much has changed. yes gief can cr. jab honda out of HHS. is that practical and reliable? no. is the risk reward in giefs favor? no where near.
Do you see what you’re doing right now? You’re trying to tell people who have analyzed, played, and analyzed again and again matchup after matchup at a high level of play that they’re dealing with opinions and not facts? Seriously?
If you want to prove that you’re not a scrub, don’t just talk about it…be about it. One, don’t post scrubbish information that we can easily disprove. Two, play somebody online and get it overwith.
Failure to do both will only establish what has already been said. If you at least play someone and show yourself to be a scrub, we’ll give you props for showing up. That’s not opinion, that’s logically-driven fact.
That’s quarter circle.
Come play me. I’m sure a lot of ppl who’ve read your posts would like to throwdown you as well. What’s your PSN ID?
I’m talking about HD Remix, not ST. I’ve been playing ST for years. I should have been more specific. I’ve had this (HDr) since it’s release on XBL, but unfortunately had to leave the country on business around the middle of Jan… I get back in the states next week, so I’m looking forward to jumping back into some matches.
I think the point that’s trying to be made is that 'Gief has methods to counter some of Honda’s attacks. Yes, the HHS kills 'Gief if you’re just trading blows or blocking, but 'Gief has some openings if his timing is right.
Again, it just comes down to different mindsets on how you view what you see as facts and what others (such as myself) view as at best popular opinion. That will never change for me. You can analyze the game until you’re blue in the face, but that doesn’t make anything you do fact in this game or on the forums. Sirlin will tell you himself there’s just too many intangibles in this game for there to be so many “facts” out there you guys claim as such. Get over yourselves already.
I came here to debate my opinions with others… if you don’t agree, like I’ve always said, that’s fine with me and very much welcomed. I love seeing different opinions and outlooks on how they view Street Fighter in general, especially now that we’re in the HDr era.
I don’t have PSN, just XBL. LOL @ the halfcircle comment smacks head
I’m not an elite online player, but I can certainly hold my own… my XBL tag is Legend of Josh.
Considering the wealth of knowledge here, it really entices me to want to play you guys that much more. It’d be foolish of me to say I’d win or lose to each of you here, but just for kicks I’d love to get a list of players who’d be willing to do a first to 10 with me and then post the results.
Craig, you wanna play some matches?
Like I said the match up didnt change nearly at all from ST. I still dont get why if you’re a shitty gief you’re trying to spout out misinfo to people who actually either a. main him, or b. play him as a backup.
gief doesnt have any openings against a turtle honda. please, tell me, what is a gief going to do against a honda who is sitting in down back? walk up? oh wait, jab headbut beats anythin gief can throw out. oh jump? too bad its invincible too. bait it and then lariat? yeah too bad lariat only works from a very specific distance. ok try and jab him out of it? sure you may get a few hits to hit him out of it but he still is holding back and has a charge. any “mixup” you can produce from that situation is null and void from the fact he can just headbutt again. also - if you fuck up your cr.jab spam timing, oh shit you just got a chunk of life taken off you and you’re back to square one.
edit: pancho - cant, working @ 4.
'Gief’s crouching jab is highly effective against strong and fierce heatbutts. If you’re close enough and you expect the jab headbutt you simply jump just before and come down deep enough to land a combo into SPD or if they block you tick into SPD (the Honda player is going to have a very difficult time getting the ocho to come out during this time). Most Hondas do not utilize his buttsplash special, so exploit Honda jump into fierce punch (must be deep unless you want to splash) then safe land for combo or sweep if in corner set up SPD, rinse and repeat until Honda’s energy is ghost. IMO, the ocho slam is not effective when 'Gief is safe with his ticks. Only when 'Gief is dumb enough to attempt to jump into combo without safe-jump.
One huge advantage Honda has over 'Gief is if you trip up 'Gief or get him on the ground close the only thing that can save him is his wake-up SPD, but b/c HHS can dash forward it can evade the SPD. The key to 'Gief winning the match is to get Honda on the ground first, which is not always easy to do, yet it can be done and has been done much more than you guys like to say it just can’t happen.
'Gief’s lariat is highly effective against the headbutt. If Honda goes after 'Gief with strong or fierce headbutt (which happens more often than you think b/c in this version headbutt and lariat are about 50/50 chance of winning) if the lariat beats the headbutt it can put Honda at a huge disadvantage.
Like I said before, I’m not all that grand with 'Gief, but I’ve played enough mediocre Honda players to know if 'Gief is used properly he can really put Honda is a world of hurt if he’s not careful about how he approaches a great timing 'Gief player (which is not me BTW).
Here’s the thing though: When does Honda need to strong or fierce Headbutt? By the way, you should be able to see something’s a little faulty in your logic if you have to rely on anticipating a move and reacting to it with a jumping move. What if you guess wrong? You’re in the air…and here comes Honda with a Sumo Splash or a fierce Headbutt to knock you down. Good Hondas don’t use the Headbutt unless you’re very close.
BTW, one of Honda’s biggest advantages is that he can store his Oichio Throw…and the motion ends in down-back. Can you see that Honda can sit there until you walk up to your max SPD range and then either poke you with his long-ranged knockdowns or bait a move from you and then Oichio you?
I’m not even a good Honda player and I can see that. Where’s my boy Kuroppi when I need him? (Answer: Probably far away from this debate.)
The Headbutt still works great as anti-air on the first few frames. You jump at Honda, you’ll eat that every time…unless you safe-jumped, which means you have to actually knock Honda down without trading. I’m still waiting to see how that’s done without being countered.
Actually, I’ll help you out here…a reversal SPD will grab anything within its throw range that’s throwable. HHS falls into that category. But, again, a good Honda knows that, so he won’t be trying to chip you with the HHS unless it’s from HHS max range.
This is why, yet again, after a knockdown, Honda will sit in down-back outside of SPD range…and wait.
This is why Honda wouldn’t Headbutt in that situation. That’s like Ken throwing a Hadouken at someone when he’s in their jumping range. He might do it once to see if you’re awake, but after that, he’s back in his turtle shell.
Here’s the key ingredient to why your arguments fall flat: “I’ve played enough mediocre Honda players”.
Again, as it was stated earlier, tiers are about potential…not your experience. At high levels of play, most Hondas don’t spam Headbutts or try to chip Zangief with HHS inside of his SPD range. They know the matchup too well to do that. Instead, they’ll sit in down-back. They might decide to stick out a standing fierce or standing roundhouse to see what you do in reaction…or see if you’re even fast enough to block them on reaction. Beyond that, down back with a stored Ochio Throw just in case you’re silly enough to try to tick into your SPD. If you jump, you eat Headbutt, or Sumo Splash, based on the distance. If for some crazy reason, they actually moved forward, close fierce will smack you out of the air. There’s only one emeny greater than Honda in this matchup: the clock.
Anyone who responds to legend of josh for any reason will be banned:rofl:
You guys are kinda being assholes. I’ve played against Josh quite a bit in XBL Hyper Fighting and the man knows how to play. It’s highly possible since he just joined up here (I know he’s been on the official xbox forums for quite some time) he doesn’t have some of the more common knowledge minutia down that we nerds do.
Cut the man some slack plz!
^^
It’s like I said a while ago, the problem here isn’t that he doesn’t have the “more common knowledge minutia down”. It’s that he’s not willing to accept that fact and that he’s convinced himself that that this thread is solely based on opinion and can’t possibly be rooted in facts. That’s why his posts have him coming off like a troll…which is why I recommended him not posting per the advice from the sticky thread.
Granted, speaking for myself, it does get me a little frustrated given that it’s obvious to me that tiers are based on fact for the most part and educated guesses for the remaining piece of the puzzle, but frustrations are easily squashed when both people are willing to recognize their place. He hasn’t recognized his.
Honestly, if he hadn’t started posting, I would probably still be reading this thread instead of posting because I’m not a master of tiers myself. Still, some things are obvious counters to others…and the obvious things that I know, I can speak on. In short, you know you’re messing up in this thread if lowly ol’ me is posting. 