What does this matter? If playing fireball characters, Honda will be forced to take damage if he wants to fill his meter. In addition, any and all characters are capable of building their super more than once in a round. Sure, Honda has a much easier time building their meter, but playing highly skilled fireball / projectile characters Honda is limited in that regard.
Maybe it’s b/c of players like this I feel Honda can be a problem for almost any character not named Ryu or DeeJay.
The key to keeping Honda in check is having your opponent using Honda to think they’re not going to simply rape you in the match-up. On the other end, if the Honda player knows he has his opponent intimidated, he can easily win the match-up. It’s all in the mind.
I agree 100%. Everyone I talk to seems to think Honda rapes 'Gief 9-1, but I think the match-up is fairly even when top players are going at it. The most effective thing to do against 'Gief if you’re Honda is KEEP YOUR DISTANCE! … obviously. I’m finding the headbutt wins about half the time against the lariat (which is much better than it was in Hyper Fighting), but 'Gief has very safe jumping-in methods against Honda.
If 'Gief can tick or get Honda with an SPD even somewhat remotely in the corner it’s very difficult for Honda to evade the trap. I’ve found Honda’s wake-up buttsplash is sometimes effective, but not always, and if you’re not careful using the strong or fierce buttsplash will lose to the 'Gief backing lariat.
I enjoy this match-up, always very fun when playing good 'Giefs. Never use the ocho slam against 'Gief!
^^Now I’ve heard it all. Honda players giving each other tips on fighting Zangief. LOL Too funny.
I don’t know what you guys are smoking, but Honda vs Zangief is nowhere near even. NOT BY A LONG SHOT. A very generous 7-3 maybe but most definitely 9-1. The worst matchup in the game IMO. Even worse than Akuma vs Zangief IMO.
Yeah really difficult to avoid tick 360s when you can store ochio and mash PPP if they get close. Just stop dude. You really know jack shit about what you’re talking about and its showing by you thinking Gief has a solid chance against honda.
Keep your distance? What happens 50 seconds later when Honda still has more life than you and is sitting in the corner with his super meter charged? How does Zangief even get close enough to chip damage off of Honda without eating a Sumo Splash, Hundred Hand Slap, or Headbutt?
“If 'Gief can tick” is right. Honda’s normals and special moves make him a fortress against Zangief. The only possible chance Zangief has is a max-range SPD…which is still outranged by Honda’s standing fierce and standing roundhouse. Get hit by either of those and you’re knocked down. From there, Honda can sit in the corner with the joystick in down-back (pretty much where it was in the beginning of the match) and wait for you.
We’re waiting for some serious game-breaking revelation here. Otherwise, we’re still going to believe that you don’t know what you’re talking about. I’d love to see some video.
I’m assuming you haven’t been playing the same 'Giefs I have. I’m also assuming you get your rocks off taking trash on the internets. How mature of you… :rolleyes:
Why not just come out and say “I don’t agree with you!” … how old are you BTW? Serious question.
If you want to debate things, great! Simply grow up first, then debate.
Never have I claimed to be an HDr guru. I never said anything I say is definite truth. More than 85% of what’s being debated on these forums is opinion. Popular opinion perhaps, still opinion. Never will opinion be fact.
Just like you’re still waiting for revelation, I’m still waiting for people to take the stick out of their ass before posting a reply.
How about this: You play gief, ill play honda and show me that its an even matchup.
I also pointed out how gief CANT tick honda since honda can store oichio and mash PPP when he gets close. And other than that honda holds down back and if gief flinches he can headbutt. and gief cant do shit about it.
My 'Gief is mediocre, so your “9-1” theory would probably hold true if you’re decent with Honda.
From what I’ve read on the forums, most agree Honda was kept very much intact from his ST days, whereas 'Gief was given a boost (and IMO, a huge boost where his specials are very much easier to pull off, especially his SPD and tick abilities).
I’m not saying this makes 'Gief and Honda clear cut 5-5 ratio, but what I am saying is that top 'Gief VS top Honda = fair match. Again, this is just my opinion just like your opinion says otherwise.
The “n00b” Hondas VS the “n00b” 'Giefs, yes certainly a 9-1 ratio… but with more advanced players the gap surely closes.
Just because someone gets ‘buffs’ doesn’t mean they’re better in every matchup. You have to think about how each change applies to every matchup. In Zangief’s case, Honda can still shut him down with like four moves. What does Zangief have that helps him against Honda? And, don’t say a damn thing about easier motions - in ‘top level play’, execution barriers will be transcended, and it won’t matter what motion you need to use to do the Green Hand or SPD. Explain to me how actual changes to move properties (of both Zangief AND E.Honda) drastically change the dynamic of this match.
Also, food for thought: If you have a mediocre Zangief, why exactly are you posting theory about his viability in different matchups?
giefs boosts were the better headbutt/hop move. - DOESNT HELP IN HONDA MATCHUP
easier green hand and SPD - WOAH IF YOU WERE HALF DECENT WITH GIEF YOU COULD ALREADY DO THEM. what “tick abilities” were given a boost? now any moron can walk up 360? cool man, it was already fairly easy to do if you sat down for 5 minutes in training mode.
also - gief is my back up character with hawk being my first. i think ive got a solid gief (others have told me) and ive played shitty hondas who do nothing but hold down back or hand slap and gief cant do a thing. please stop spewing nonsense. go watch top level videos then and prove me and the entire ST community wrong all high and mighty 09 member. whats next? Gief vs sim is only like 6-4?
ok since you think this opinion shit automatically makes anything you think NOT wrong, Hawk is the best character in the game. Akuma is worse than fei. Gief is just below hawk. Sim is at the bottom cause hes really slow and has a laggy jump. IMO.
you see the problem with that? or no since its just my opinion.
the point i was trying to make that went over your head was that the two matches are incredibly hard and 8-2 easy. obviously they’re different.
There’s a difference in what I’m trying to say and what you’re trying to say. You’re trying to compare apples to oranges.
No one will agree Fei Long > Akuma or that 'Hawk is the best character in the game, and even though my opinion of top Honda VS top 'Gief is more even than people think, some still agree the gap is much less than “popular opinion” … some will agree with me that the Honda VS 'Gief match-up is not a clear-cut 9-1 or even 8-2. Maybe in most cases, but I risk to say it’s more like 7-3 in Honda’s favor or 6-4 with elite players going at it.
IMO, the 'Sim match-up is much more difficult for 'Gief, and certainly more frustrating. This match-up to me is easily 8-2 more like 9-1 and to me is the toughest match-up for any two characters in the game being compared.
Your banter is not creative, it’s not witty, it’s simply more tough-guy e-thugness. You should be proud. I’m honestly shocked it was followed with a “YOU GAWDDAMN MORON!” … honestly.
No, your comment was valid + you did so in a respectul manner. I wasn’t trying to ignore you, just wanted to reply to the other guy first. Don’t be so quick to jump the gun.
I’ve always had this opinion of Ryu as well. Since the days of CE, Hyper Fighting and ST, now marching on into HDr.
You summed it up quite nicely; Ryu’s design is to have a slight advantage over most or all characters, but that any character (not named Honda) has a chance to come out with the W.
I’d say Ryu VS Honda is 8-2 in Ryu’s favor, and without Honda’s jab headbutt it’d be 9-1. Most other Ryu match-ups would probably land him anywhere between 4-6 not in his favor or upwards of 7-3 in his favor and everything else being in-between. Maybe 'Sim’s is something like 7-3 not in Ryu’s favor.
By the way, here’s some opinion from top players about how this match went in ST:
The first one is a consensus of various top Japanese players. The second one is the opinion of several top American players.
The nicest opinion for Zangief is 7-3 E.Honda, while the worst was 8.5-1.5 E.Honda. Pretty much anything above 6-4 is a pretty lopsided match. So, keep that in mind when you start making specific points on how this matchup has changed, because I don’t think I can’t recall any matchup changing by more than one point in either direction.