Even with nerfed HHS, he is way better in this game.
Ochio throw trap is overrated and is escapable by decent players anyway.
Jab headbutt is just as good as ever AND can be used as a fireball shield if you know how to use it properly.
Super can only be DP’d on the second hit if they block. And it takes off 50% as an anti-air. Even if Sirlin/Capcom doesn’t fix that glitch the super is still infinitely better than original.
Better neutral fierce jump.
Honda is a goddamn monster in this one. He just needs to think a bit differently against Bison (better jab) and Gief/Hawk (weakened HHS and headbutt gets beat by their spam jabs).
I used to think that until I met someone who literally did nothing but sit in the corner and do jabs with Hawk. He had awesome reaction time with SRKs and Stormhammers too. Plus I’m really impatient!
This is a VERY common theme I’ve seen, btw. Pretty much almost everyone I know HATES their main character in HD Remix, insisting (oftentimes illogically) that they are way worse than before. I complain that Cammy is easily all alone in the bottom tier all the time. Honestly, she’s probably better, but it’s just painful to see things taken away that shouldn’t have been.
Honda is a beast in this game. Not necessarily top tier, because he still has problems against Shotos, but his chances against them are better, there is almost no question about it. And his easy match-ups barely got any worse. Zangief is still really easy to kill, IMO, for example.
But yeah, I don’t really mean to debate Honda’s worth in the game. Just wanted to point out that I think almost universally, most players hate the version of their main characters from vanilla ST, except for the ones that didn’t get ANY nerfs (Ryu, Bison, Blanka, Dee Jay).
I main Claw and at my middling skill level feel that Honda has virtually free wins against him at the same presumed skill level. Ditto Dic, but I see a lot more Hondas online. To rate my own character FWIW I think that Claw is both top tier and easy to start, and perhaps the best gamepad character because of easy AA/specials input and virtual four-button playability: MP/HP/MK/HK, LP on the shoulder for short rolls. I still long for the idea of not feeling like I can lose the game at the character select screen, though. If I were to attempt to objectively (heh) rate it I’d say 7-3 for Honda and Dic against Claw, but I’m probably losing 8/10 against them.
I couldn’t agree more. I find that I’m less afraid to fight shotos with Honda, but I still get worked by the guys that manage the spacing (and don’t screw up) well. A turtle Guile is a PITA for me as well.
If you don’t get baited into doing the light headbutt it’s a great move, especially if you can time it to hit the player. Sets you up for a tap Ochio, or a bait of your own. But I think you just have to play him differently. Mix up the ways to get over fireballs, and as long as your opponents aren’t fantastic with shotos you can win.
I’ve beaten some really good players with Honda against their shotos. On the flip side I’ve also been raped by shotos.
He rocks against a lot of characters though. I regularly beat Hawk, Geif, Chun, Blanka, Dictator, Boxer, Claw, and Dee Jay.
The super is a monster now if you use it at the right time. If the oponent tries to jump in on you (sometimes even if they cross you up) you can really punish them if you have meter.
This post is spot on!:tup: I personally like every character I play with. I think honda is good in this game, but it suits the way i play him also. :rolleyes: Others with different playing styles than me may not like how honda plays in hd remix, but I like him.
Ochio trap is a great mindgame tool… shouldnt be you’re whole game by any means but still great… without it all he has is a mediocre wakeup game
vs which fireball character??? i rather jump up fp any day over jab headbutt far better risk reward
ok i give u this… his super is useful because of AntiAir… still nothing beats hitting Rog’s dash punch for like 5 hits for 60% dmg… oh yea thats gone too in hdr…
The jabs isnt what beats Honda… Gief j.strong beat honda’s hhs trap game clean… Gief c.rhk trips HHS infinately time more easier than in ST hawk Dive goes clean over HHS which use to never do it… and one step forward hawk is in his spd range…
I agree that most player dislike their main compared to ST but Honda’s gotta be one of the legitamate ones… Shotos still beat Honda as easily if not better in HDr than in ST and now can bait jab headbutt making it really not useful at all.
ie vs Sagat midrange… honda can easily go over low tigers w/ headbutt… but not high… but using fp headbutt u can get dp for trying… so the optimal choice would be hey use jab or strong one… now jab headbutt doenst just go over low tigers it cancels… which means sagat can immediately throw rhk tiger and hit u on recovery great… now im force to use mp headbutt or fp and depending on range is a free dp on me…
Ken destroys honda w/ extra range dp… and as long as akuma doesnt go into the air as much… he can play a hybrid ryu/ken fireball uppercut game that Honda really cannot catchup
and Guile geeze how do u beat a good guile w/ honda thats gotta be a terrible mismatch now…
His easy matchups… Cammy/Gief/Hawk/Fei all have been tweaked enough to give that match a more balance game. I’m not saying its a 5-5 but its no longer a 7-3 or 8-2 more like 6-4
What most people seem to forget is that many of you think honda is a beast because ure playing online… with lag etc… Honda I agree is insanely good online…
offline when u can react 100x better and ure opponent can scout better he is Avg at best… so dont be misinformed to think Honda is a beast cause ure struggling w/ him online… vs a live honda as ure opponent he aint that scarry
That’s exactly what I’ve seen as well. I think an Akuma version of the ryu/ken fireball uppercut game is worse because he has the fierce fireball. 3 hits of block damage at distance and he effectively removes the jab headbutt from the equation.
NO Claw has never been an easy matchup for honda… and its not now either…
in ST once u get honda down Claw can crossup dive all day long on honda and it was really hard to get out of that trap… vega can also sit back and wait for headbutts for free flip kick…
I actually do disagree with this a lot. I think Honda is much better against Shotos than before. It IS true, if a Shoto knew how to play the match before, they can still play the match well NOW. The rule of the Jab Headbutt is the same as the rule with fighting Ryu in general: if you are in major frame disadvantage, going through the Fireball with your Jab Headbutt doesn’t reward you squat. There are times where Honda can Jump over Fireballs and be okay, but if in Frame Disadvantage (like blocking a Jab Fireball from a screen away), it won’t work at all.
So that problem still exists. And if Ryu can keep you there, you’re screwed, with or without the Jab Headbutt. BUT… and this is a big but (pun intended? ^_^), Honda has a BUNCH more ways to get in a lot easier now. For one thing, having the Jump Short hit Sweeps is nice. It’s not easy, and they can still sweep you, but from time to time, it’s good enough to get you in without being swept for free. The better Netrual Jumping Fierce helps a lot too. And, if Ryu does not have you in Block Stun, and is a screen away and is trying to bait you into a Jab Headbutt, the game opens up. Before, in ST, it didn’t matter: throw the Fireball anyway, what can Honda do? NOW, he HAS to try and bait it and play mind games with you. Which is WAY better than he had it before.
So from a screen away, you can throw out Fierce Headbutts, because they are fast. If he was expect the Jab one so he could walk in and Sweep you, he can get caught off guard. And if you ARE right with the Jab Headbutt and make it through the Jab Fireball in a timing where he can’t sweep you for free, it’s WAY better than anything he could do in ST, because you can get half-way across the screen WHILE MAINTAINING CHARGE. That part is HUGE.
I’m not saying the fight is even now or anything, but the Jab Headbutt, Jump Short, and Neutral Jump Fierce have opened up three VERY valid options to getting around the Fireballs, and mixing them up makes life less fun for Ryu.
If Honda is anywhere even REMOTELY not a fulle screen away, Jab Headbutt hits low tigers in the arm. Just don’t do it from a full screen away. Sagat will be throwing High Tigers just to prevent you from going over low ones, so if you see him throw a high one, get out a Fierce Hand Slap. You may eat another Fireball afterwards, but you will still have gained distance an no longer be a screen away. Or if he throws lots of High Tigers, he’s asking to be Jump Kicked in the head since those arms are so easy to hit now.
Between Ryu, Ken, and Sagat, I would say Ken is the one that still remains a real thorn in Honda’s side. And, to me, it’s because his Fireball is TOO SLOW.
Jump Short eats up Guile’s Low Forward now, MUCH harder for Guile to punish Jumping Hondas from a screen away after throwing a Sonic Boom.
I don’t agree. I use him offline against friends and he just feels really strong to me. In fact, I barely even feel the Hand Slap nerf at all, since I usually use it as Meaty Attacks more than anything else. To me, outside of free Oicho Traps in the corner, I don’t feel like he got worse in any way.
You’re one salty dude. Lighten up man. My perception is based on my experience and knowledge. Based on your experience and knowledge, I would say every matchup is 1-9! ZING!
Others with different playing styles than me may not like how honda plays in hd remix, but I like him.