chun could punish blanka ball before with walk up standing strong (or super. or strong into super if you’re gangsta)
also not sure who said this, but SBK to escape crossups should never work, even in original ST. if the opponent is not asleep all he has to do is just hit you out of the SBK on reaction, then set up the same tick throw situation over again
i really don’t get all the complaining about the new ground SBK. you should never use it in regular ST except when you’re just throwing out a prayer. that really hasn’t changed much
new air SBK, that serves pretty much the same function in the sagat match; going over low tigers and building meter. it does hurt the ryu match a little though, as ryu’s fireballs are too big to go over reliably
chun’s biggest nerf for sure is the damage on her super. before in her disadvantaged matches, like vs ryu and sagat, you would often lose 50% life and corner yourself before you got the meter. the super being nearly insta-win kinda sorta made up for it
now, you kill yourself to maybe do 50% damage if the stars align right
I’ll reiterate: I am pretty positive Dhalsim is no longer top tier. Everyone else got better, he got a bit worse, and still gets punked by all the characters he lost to before (only worse). Cammy is harder, Honda is much worse, Chun and Claw still beat him though not quite as brutally, Boxer is still close, Ryu is closer, Blanka is much harder, Zangief is a heck of a lot harder (I still cannot punish blue hands from full screen - maybe someone has tips on that), and Thawk is much harder.
I am pretty convinced Akuma beats sim, also, after having played a few more decent ones.
He lost the noogie trap, and that’s about it. If a repeatable throw trap is all a character needed to be top tier then about half the cast would qualify in ST. He’s still a zoning beast, and that’s what really made him top tier in the first place. I’d say he’s still tops and maybe high tier at worst.
I don’t think anybody’s saying those characters aren’t “good” anymore. What they are saying is that their matchups have changed enough to move them down in the tiers.
Having three to four frames more of recovery on projectiles in exchange for the ability to tech throws, use your super as a reversal, get a more viable tool that can juggle within itself doesn’t sound like weakening to me. Sounds more like tweaking.
I really don’t think Sagat’s matches have changed all that much.
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong. Still I think Sagat is still top tier material.
As for Sim yeah I can’t front. He lost a tool. One. Hell he didn’t even lose it. He still has it. It’s just riskier to keep it going, but it can still win games and it still gets the job done when executed tightly.
Sim could go down. But the lowest I see him as is top of high tier.
The problem is judging a character simply by nerfs/buffs doesn’t really tell how a character will do matchup-wise. Sagat got some helpful tools, but the thing he FLATTENED a lot of the cast in ST with was weakened. Not only that, but quite a few characters were given improvements to help them get around fireball games. It’s not so much that he’s “better” or “worse”; it’s just possible a number of his matchups have become more difficult.
My personal opinion is Sim is probably still top tier, but I don’t play him so I’m unaware of a lot of the minutia that goes into his game.
I can’t believe I’m seeing this come from a sagat player lol. Sure he got stuff to compensate for more fb recovery but don’t get it twisted O.sagat would make R.sagat his bitch all day.
My opinion about sim: Fierce throw is still gdlke, noogie still pretty good and he can still throw a fb and follow up accordingly or wait for you to throw a fb and followup accordingly.
Honda has always been hard, the only thing that changed was harder yoga flame trap in the corner b/c of jab headbutt, but other than that its the same match, but with slightly less ochio shenanigans. Its the same match
Blanka is the same, good players still have to think about using ball, and that’s about the only change to the Dhalsim matchup that matters
I personally think the Chun match is harder b/c noogie trap was kind of key in doing damage to this bitch.
Zangief has always been an underrated difficult matchup. KKK lariat does add another option since Gief used to have to guess between limb/fireball and respond with cr. rh/lariat respectively.
Played 2 good cammys on GGPO (none on HDR), both of them did things without abusing j. mp so I think you’re right on this one since she only gained on the other end
O. Sagat would rape R. Sagat. But that was cuz O.Sagat was braindead good.
Now you have to think when you play Sagat since he lost that dominating tool.
I’m saying though that I have seen posts that imply that Sagat is a weak character just because he lost that tool even though he didn’t really lose it he just lost that super high braindead degree of effectiveness.
And yeah other characters did get tools to deal with fb’s, but fb’s overall are still strong. You just can’t spam them like a vegetable. Use fb to force a reaction or condition a response and punish.
sim lost anti air super vs. blanka I think this is pretty significant. tagging sim’s head into throw loop or 3 hit dizzy combo is so crucial to the matchup for me. dhalsim losing a 50% of your life guaranteed anti air means that trading j.fp with all of sim’s moveset should make it significantly harder for sim to win. His b+jab b+strong s.forward and b+forward, and slide all lose to blanka’s j.fp.
The fierce throw is indeed still really good. When I play Sim I can still do the noogie loop against scrubs because they don’t know they can get out of it. Against players who can get out, I do one noogie and then tick into the fierce throw, which works rather well. So, it can still be used as a good tactic, you just can’t do it mindlessly and you have to work in the fierce throw. Fierce throw still has some nice shenanigans in the corner. I see his throw game as more of a nice mixup now rather than an abusable game wining tactic.
This is a far bigger nerf to Sim than the loss of the noogie loop in my eyes. As a Dictator player, I was always scared like all hell of Sim when he had meter.
I still think Sim is really good, but not top tier. I think he’s at the very top of high tier though. He can still zone like all hell, but losing a throw loop, an extremely damaging and reliable AA, and not being able to cleanly hit booms adds up to a lot.
To those saying Sim and Sagat aren’t top tier anymore I will simply ask this: If they aren’t top tier anymore then who is and why? (Besides the obvious answer of Akuma)
Sagat isn’t top tier anymore because his keep away game got nerfed, which was one reason he was top tier to begin with. Combine this with certain characters getting more ways to get past fireballs, almost every character in the game has an easier time getting in on him.
I can’t believe I’m seeing this come from a sagat player lol. Sure he got stuff to compensate for more fb recovery but don’t get it twisted O.sagat would make R.sagat his bitch all day.