Ive never bothered using that tactic or ever even heard of it. Interesting to know I guess. Thing about gief hopping into spd is that hawk is only ever gonna throw out cr.rh if he sees gief lariat. I think hawk beats gief because hawk has a dp and can do jump.jab cr.jab wait and its a big guessing game for gief. either gief sits and waits for a dp, or gets 360’d. if one of those hits, its the same guessing game over again. Gief has nothing like that. the best he can do after a tick (besides 360) is wait, cr.rh
Hawk also lost the ability to use dives at Zangief’s head, where dive could beat lariat and trade with standing roundhouse. If Hawk does that now, he’s usually (or always, haven’t quite figured it out yet) gonna get spd in his face, meaning that now if he wants to dive, he usually has to do it at an angle that can get hit by lariat and beaten outright by standing roundhouse.
I don’t think that spd/dp guessing game is enough to overcome Gief’s advantage on the ground, which only got stronger, the changes to where Hawk can dive, or Hawk’s loss of his other major guessing game.
The only time that I actually hit gief with the dive at that height is when gief screwed up. I never actually intended to hit him with it. Like Id jump, do a dive, and gief would try to lariat and id hit his head. If gief lariats, I was always hitting cr.rh and not bothering with the dive because by the time the dive comes out, the lariat most likely will have stopped and gief can block which does nothing.
What does gief have on the ground over hawk? his cr.rh beats a lota shit but i dont think its enough.
This situation is as much a guessing game for hawk as it is for gief. If you don’t dp, you get grabbed. If you do dp and gief blocks, you get punished. If you attempt an spd while gief attempts his, you will get grabbed as he has priority coming out of block stun.
Better super, faster overhead, hurricane kicks that knock down, faster fireballs…You sure about Ken being better? The only thing Ken has over Ryu in HDR is that his strong dp is invincible, which is only hugely useful in reversals; however, if you piano to get reversals more frequently, who knows what version you’re going to get? So all in all, it’s useful, but not that useful. I’d say Ryu is the better character.
I can see why the Guile match up would be harder now. With c. fierce no longer going under Sonic Booms, Sim has to deal with Guile’s shit just like everyone else.
However…what makes the Dictator match up in Dict’s favor?
I don’t know, he just doesn’t seem that different to me. That most likely comes from me not playing him. I’m going to start though, considering that I need to learn at least one other character besides Dictator, and I like Sim’s style.
While I think Ryu is probably better all around than Ken in most matchups still, I’m starting to think Honda has a harder time against Ken than he does against Ryu because of Ken’s new fierce dp. Ken’s fireball game isn’t as good as Ryu’s, but it’s hard for Honda to get around his fireballs because Ken’s huge fierce dp arc can now hit Honda out of the air from really far away. I’m not sure how applicable this is to other characters, but it’s a big reason that this matchup isn’t as even as I expected it to be.
Sim’s only real way to beat Bison is to corner him. Reversal devil’s reverse changes that.
Sim could win in some situations on his feet with standing strong, db.jab, db.mk, etc, and win some antiairs with jab/shortkick. But overall, he’s going to trade or lose enough exchanges for Bison’s ridiculous damage and combos to overcome him.
Bison wins a lot of the air, and a lot of the ground, and has an inescapable corner trap that is not terribly hard to execute, and can escape sim’s traps.
This may just be my experience, but having played against my buddy Atonalism’s (you may remember him as #1 in the country for a while =P haha) Bison a lot, I literally only beat him if I put him in the corner and lock him down. He can escape with devil’s reverse often enough that this is not a big deal anymore, so I lose even more 
I think this matchup was .5 in Sim’s favor before, and is closer to 6/4 Bison now, if not a little worse.
So, who exactly counters Bison in HD Remix?
Ryu is still better by far. There’s no reaason other than the Fireball. ST is a Fireball player’s game, and Ryu has almost the best Fireball in the game. Tied with the new Fake, the Fireball game is more potent than every before.
But I do agree with UltraDavid. Ken is WAY better against Honda than Ryu, because his Fireball is slower. Makes doing Jab Headbutts through the Fireball much more difficult because of the Jab Headbutt’s short traveling distance.
- James
For the love of god… I could almost Kiss you! :lovin: LOL…J/K…You took the words damn near out of my mouth!
Sim needed to get a noogie throw/ mix up somewhere in that matchup in ST to pull out a “w” constantly. Given all the changes to the new game. It is just not going to happen now. Bison can get wiggle his way out of so much. And when Sim makes a mistake… he is punished HARD. The risk - reward ratios are heavily in Bison’s favor now.
Not sure… the biggest weakness he had in ST (weakness to tick throws) has be drastically reduced. I don’t think he weak towards or countered by anybody now.*
*Reserves the right to change mind after a bit more time and expure to HD. :wgrin:
Ehh, I still think he loses to Honda.
Wow…yeah, I didn’t say he was top. I was agreeing with AngryNord, in which he can kill you in 5 or 6 seconds. I didn’t even mention anything about tiers in my post. Thanks for that interpretive post though. I’m saying he is better than before, even with all the other nerfs the other cast got. He still is highly risk reward. He does crazy damage but your playing mind game mixups against the opponent. The new slide gives you an option to bait reversals.
lol, I have to agree there, if I get a tricky Bison player who is shutting me down, I break out the Honda, push Bison into the corner and molest him until he dies. (Most of the time anyways)
His hella fast jab helps him out a bit, he dies in seconds if he loses momentum.
For me, this is easily my hardest matchup as M. Bison, although I haven’t played too many good Zangeifs yet.
Not to mention invincible dp for buttflops.
Something I didn’t see anyone point out during the Ken/Ryu comparison.
Regarding Ryu’s fireballs being faster than Ken’s (Murderbydeath did already mention this): even though Ryu’s fierce fb is faster than Ken’s, remember that Ken’s jab fb is slower than Ryu’s. This actually makes it more useful for certain applications, particularly trapping.
Doesn’t Ken’s jab dp have more invincibility and/or pushback than Ryu’s? Does it recover more quickly? It’s definitely harder to punish. I don’t know off the top of my head if hitboxes are any different.
Fatboy, I don’t think this is the word you meant to write! :bgrin:
You’d be surprised that it doesn’t really help against that move in the long run. There’s not much Ken can do to the buttflop that Ryu can’t. It’s EASIER to DP it with an invincible Strong DP, requires less timing and such and is more “free” so to speak. But for the optimal counters to it, you’re probably far away enough that sweeping it when it lands works just as good for Ryu as it does Ken. Or you’re close enough that you’ll wanna do a deep DP anyhow for more damage. And that works just as well for Ryu as it does for Ken.
- James
Ken can now fierce dp when Honda tries to get over a fireball at mid range, about a third of the screen away. Both Ryu and Ken can walk up and sweep when Honda jumps toward at that range, but only Ken can fierce dp Honda out of his controllable neutral jumping fierce. I don’t think Ken is harder than Ryu because of his slower fireballs; the new controllable jumping fierce makes getting over even a jab Deejay max out pretty simple now. The reason I think Ken is harder than Ryu now is the new huge arc of his fierce dragon punch.