Well I was referring to Vanilla. I’ve played wolf_1’s guile (really good player obviously) with Sim and yeah, I could tell Sim had a good advantage. But playing against brian on 2df made me feel like it was overstated since he was countering all of the supposed match exploits with the stuff SweetJV mentioned in hist last post. I’ve watched a couple of the Gian/KKY v. Guile matches on youtube, and I don’t see any of the guiles countering cr. punches like B was, so maybe I just don’t know how to counter-counter b/c I’m sure the japanese players had to have something to make the Guile fear doing sobats or st. shorts…
How do you guys feel about the Ryu vs. Honda matchup in HD remix? From Ryu’s perspective it seems like he can’t really fight Honda from far away and he especially can’t fight him up close either.
Why can’t he fight him from afar? It’s not like honda can jab headbutt every projectile that ryu sends? There’s still a great load of mindgames to be done here in my opinion.
Also, am I wrong in thinking there’s a DP opportunity after a blocked fierce headbutt?
I live and die by the randomness. :wgrin: Dictator is amazingly fun to play in ST(Vanilla or HD). He requires some patience, but those clutch victories make it all worth it.
I’ve played both sides of this matchup, and I must say it seems like a fair fight…not to mention the new mind games are fun as hell. It doesn’t seem like auto-pilot any more. Ryu can no longer robohadouken all day for the W, and Honda lost his repeatable Ochio, so he has to keep the pressure on. Honda can just get in so much easier now, and both sides have many options to choose from in HD. In my opinion, this is one of the most fun matches for me in HD.
The biggest thing that he was given was the invulnerability on the Devil’s Reverse, so now he doesn’t lose for free if he gets pushed into the corner. Dictator’s strength in this game really doesn’t come from him gaining things, though. It really comes from other characters losing certain things. I honestly believe that the Honda-Dictator matchup is actually in Dict.'s favor now. He still has a few difficult matchups, but overall he seems pretty fair to the rest of the cast.
I was talking with calipower tonight and he was telling me how akuma was out of place, mindless with 2 patterns that can be repeated, and only 3 characters can do anything to him (sim, rog, n blanka.)
I personally don’t think he’s broken but I do think he’s indisputably top3.
This is true sir imo. You speak the truth and brian on 2df is the best guile I’ve played against period.
so, a rough guestimate, how does the tiers seem to look in HDR so far?
No boxer love anymore? He lost some meter building, but he’s still lethal with headbutts, buffalo rushes, super, etc…
The MASSIVE influx of new Guile players have made people scared to try out Boxer? Guile is tricky for Boxer unless you know what you are doing.
In my opinion, Balrog/Boxer is definetly still towards the top. Sure he’s weakened a little bit, but other characters were weakened more, and he’s till a very good character. In my opinion, right now Balrog and Bison are the top 2 characters. (Not including Akuma)
i dont feel like dhalsim is a whole hell of alot worse, hes been nerfed yes, but he still has what made him really good, awesome, space controlling normals, great AAs, and some high damage, good ranged throws. he just doesnt shut down people quite as bad as it used to.
also, i dont find guiles overhead that hard to block on reaction, its got a pretty long startup
Tightest Tiers I have seen yet, Safe to say Kuma, Rog are tops, but Gat and Honda are close contenders, but even the “lower than gawd” tiers are much more capable then in ST. (Guile is no joke, Sim can still cause massive pain, Dictator is still a** damage machine **(improved no less!), Blanka went “rags to riches”, heck, *T hawk *seems to have gotten better, Ken got buffs, heck, fuggin everyone changed at least a bit.
:looney:
I agree. I think Sirlin hit the nail on the head when he set the power level he wanted to achieve at the top tier. The tiers are so hard to even speculate on right now. I feel like I have a fair chance to win with nearly every character, almost like everyone is high tier.
I think that the tier list for this game is going to end up not having “low/mid/high/top”, but something more along the lines of “good/better/best”. I’m sure the vast majority of the cast is going to end up in the “better” tier. I’m not even sure right now if anyone will even really end up on the bottom. The only characters that worry me when it comes to that are Cammy and Fei Long…even then I think their problems lie within just a few match ups.
There can still be a high, mid, low tier here…it’s just that the gaps are tight (quote). People have been conditioned by other games to believe low tier = no chance and high tier = completely fucking broken. A thoughtfully designed game strives for something that is not so polar.
…but hey…it is still early.
…but hey part 2, it is ST.
Yes, low tier does not mean shitty, but with how balanced the cast feels I almost want to say using “low” doesn’t feel right.
Akuma is retarded.
LOL@ everyone else acting like the toptiers have been nerfed to the point where we have to actually reconsider if they are still tops.
I kind of agree with chemistren82 (really really good player) the tiers are almost the same.
Boxer is still a rushdown rapist, claw still has one of the best ground and air games with the same retarded throw, sim can still throw a fb waiting to fuck you up as you react, sagat still deals out lots of damage and can play offense or defense very well. IMO like I’ve said before even with the nerfs they got and the buffs everyone else got I don’t think the cast moved up enough to be as good as those 4.
Personally I’ve always thought of bison as midtier but sirlin sums him up nicely:
“I always liked Bison?s character design though. In theory, a character who is all offense and no defense is an interesting addition to the game. In practice, he just has too many matches of disadvantage and he?s not used that often in tournaments. He?s not even considered a second tier character. What to do about it?”
Getting a reversal outside of super is awesome but it’s still semi risky and unless you’re a god at execution you won’t be getting it out consistently and it doesn’t even work against geifs splash (I think the same for hawk n hondas splash too but don’t quote me on it.) The fake slide is really good as it nets you the occasional throw or headstomp/devil mixup and it makes real slide even better but it’s nowhere near abuseable against anyone half decent at st, improved jab is win against torpedo moves and some jump ins while straightup jmp is more of a fixed bug then an actual buff.
These 4 buffs combined move bison up from mid to high tier but he’s still the riskiest character to play and like sim requires a lot of matchup knowledge or else your shenanigans won’t work.
I agree. The top four retained much of that made them top to begin with. Sirlin just removed their most abusable shit, namely throw loops for sim and boxer.
What I’m curious about is why everyone suddenly thinks Dicator is top. He got a couple of new toys, sure, but most of them are largely situational. Nerfs to a few characters made those matchups easier for him…but he certainly doesn’t feel dominating. He still has piss poor AA, and still gets raped in the corner. He’s very good, but I still believe don’t believe he’s top. I wish Sirlin had given him a teleport. He definitely would have been a contender for a top spot then.
Well, Bison is a tricky one, he has nasty combo strings, a very fast throw, a killer air juggle, great dizzy potential, and can kill you in 2 combos. Hes one of those chars that can be hard to deal with if you dont know his matchups very well, he has always been very powerful, but on the same note, he can get messed up real bad in a corner. And if he had his teleport, he would be a contender for best in the game (bail out reset from the corner).
Yes, he does have a killer offense. Dictator can kill you in 6 seconds right at the start of the match if you’re not careful, but every character in the game can do that. I think the difference is the way that it’s done. Whereas other characters have to do a fancy cross up to kill you in a single dizzy combo, Dictator’s kill combos are actually his BnBs. That kind of offense is indeed scary.
However, I still say he lacks a certain quality. Compared to the characters that were top tier in ST (probably will be in HD as well), he just isn’t like them. Not only do these characters have amazing offense and pressure, they also have fairly strong defense. Hell, Boxer can rush down like no other, yet he can sit back and turtle if he likes, and the other player actually needs to be wary. Dictator on the other hand cannot do this. Hell, he can’t even tolerate getting put on the defensive for very long at all. It’s mainly due to his lack off good antiair. Every other character in the game has several moves that can be used as AA, and be used as AA safely on reaction to the jump. Dictator…no so much. He does have some AA, but not like the other characters. Ryu, for instance, can SRK a jump in for free. He can usually c. fierce as well. Dict has to pretty much guess when his opponent will jump and go from there. He doesn’t have any normals with hit boxes above his head, so only with jump ins at certain distances will his ground normals work. His air normals work sometimes, but they’re dubious at best. j. Roundhouse and neutral j.short are the most reliable, and even they get stuffed plenty. If you have meter, you can sometimes get a j. strong x3 into a super for 40 or 50%, but j. strong gets stuffed a lot too. Sometimes the best solution is to just block and try to throw them if they don’t go for a block string. Against the top tier characters, jumping in will get you punished for sure. Against Dictator, go ahead, you can almost do it for free.