I enjoy playing all shotos. Even the ones that abuse fake FB. That makes fighting Ryu tougher. As for Ken… I enjoy fighting Ken because I’ve developed many counters for him. Not to say that I don’t take my fair share of beatings because I clearly do but I just feel very comfortable in that fight.
And you are wrong.
Guile in particular has no real answer to slide in ST.
He does in HDR. That is a huge difference.
Dhalsim at the same time time as Claw lost walldive knockdown lost Noogie loop.
But Dhalsim gained better upflame to help him stop the walldives.
You obviously haven’t tried to beat a good Claw player with Guile or Dhalsim. And what exactly is Guile’s answer to Claw’s slide? RH Somersault? Sobat? If you ask Guile players, they will tell you that neither of those attacks are reliable vs Claw’s slide. If you rewatch the Gamestop tourney final of Graham Wolfe’s Claw vs Paul Eath’s Guile (which sadly is the only high level Guile vs Claw match we have for HDR, unless I’m missing something), you will notice that Eath rarely did a single RH Somersault or Sobat vs Wolfe’s non-stop rushdown pokes and slides. But IMO, Claw’s slide is still not the biggest problem for Guile. It’s the situational Dives that neither a jump attack nor Somersault can beat, usually the ones off the opposite wall and hitting directly overhead ambiguously, which beat j Fierces, j Roundhouses and any Somersault.
And you’re wrong about Dhalsim’s Noogie loop vs Claw, it’s still very effective. Watch [media=youtube]IExRYBgicyc"[/media] (Evo09 5v5 HDR qualifier side event, thanks to Syxx for that), and you will see he whores the Noogie loop as soon as he gets close. And his AA of choice is not the Upflame, but the back jump RH. But when Claw is far away, that’s when Dhalsim loses: vs the Dives, vs the pokes, vs the slides and vs the ultra fast jump ins. The Dhalsim player has to play a near perfect game, with little to no mistakes to beat a good Claw player from a distance IMO.
The throw range nerfs to holds weren’t really severe, they still have plenty of range, except it seems ken’s has shit range. Sim/boxer’s still seem massive.
My matchup experience in Guile vs Claw comes from playing people like marsgatti and fifthnsomebud a lot.
RH flashkick is a response to Slide.
Guile has none in ST im not sure what part of that you don’t understand.
That is the reason why he does not rely on it in HDR to beat Guile and has to use less effective methods.
And J.:hp: is a solid response to a walldive.
And of course noogie is gonna be effective.
If that person is not be capable of doing reversals.
I think that Vega did a total of 1 Reversal against a tickthrow and that reversal was a Walldive attempt.
Those noogie could have been reversal thrown so i can’t really say that was a high level match.
Furthermore he mashes out of noogie and Vega cannot mash out of noogie since thats a clear signal to Sim that he does not have a flipkick charge.
And J.:hk: is a horrible anti air against walldive.
Walldives are not linear.
Watch the matches i linked and how many times i beat a j.:hk: by altering a walldive path or faking it.
Ammo’s loaded! Today we go to war! 
Shari vs. Blitz
GET IT ON!
At least its not me and VF4 against Jiggly and everyone else who doesnt play hawk 
I have to agree with Shari. That Vega that played against Grog was not that good. He didnt mix up his wall dives at all. He didnt do the moves that shoots across like an arrow. Sim kept doing the upward yoga flame which easily could have been punished by that move. That also would have made Dhalsim think about just jumping back with RH kick. He also didnt do any reversal flip kicks when Sim went for the noogie.
I agree this is a matchup where Sim wants to keep Vega relatively close and limit wall dive shananigans but if he gets to agressive it can be a little risky and can get punished. The upward flame works against rookie Vegas to be honest. Good Vegas will hit you with the extended claw so that either you take chip damage or you get knocked down trying to counter with a normal move. They’ll come at you with the grab if they can get behind you which throws off your animation because you are too slow to turn around.
Anyhow as a Sim player Vega is no easy match-up. Sure I have beaten some very good Vega’s but it was patience, baiting, teleports, fireballs (which was never thrown in that match???) to keep him honest.
If you think that Sim Vs Vega is easy you are mistaken.
On a different note, I think Ryu is the best character in this game. He doesnt have any bad matchups. Good night.
He loses to claw. Supposedly loses to gief and maybe sim. He’s even or about even with boxer.
Guile had no response in ST, and he *still *has no response in HDR. That is the point you are missing. If you are getting hit by Guile’s RH Somersault, you are doing the slide way too close. Try it from the max range, and I guarantee RH Somersault will whiff everytime.
Of course it is. But not when Claw’s Dive is right on top of Guile, especially off the opposite wall and crossing up a 2nd time. I use the j Fierce exclusively when Claw is near, but j RH is also very effective vs long range Dives.
My point exactly. If that Claw would have reversal thrown or reversal Flipkicked, that would’ve taken away Dhalsim’s only method of doing big damage to Claw. Can you imagine how tough this match is for Dhalsim, if his only way to do big damage is using the throw loop? *Huge *disadvantage for Dhalsim.
And Dhalsim doing Fires vs Claw is a losing strategy, as Claw can not only jump them on reaction, but Dhalsim’s long recovery prevents him from anti airing a Dive effectively. Funny thing is, that Claw vs Grog’s Dhalsim was not high level, yet he managed to win a few rounds as well as a match vs Grog’s near perfect play with Dhalsim. That says it all IMO.
Wrong.
What is your point ?
Near perfect play ?
Are you serious ?
Why are you arguing with me if you agree with me.
I say Dhalsim lost his noogie loop which hurts him you say it’s still an effective strategy.
I point out why this is wrong now you agree with me and say that was your point all along ?
Stick to one side of the argument or this is pointless.
What exactly is it you are trying to argue here ?
That Dhalsim vs Vega would somehow be worse in HDR than in ST ?
Cause that’s among the dumbest things i have ever heard.
Could you explain what exactly you are trying to argue for because i have lost track now.
His original statement was that the only reason sim/guile have it better against claw was because of claw’s nerf not their buffs.
You said sim has an easier time in HDR than in ST, his point from the video was an attempt to show that sim’s only way to get damage is from noogie, and that had the claw reversed sim would have lost/possibly lost. You argued that upflame balances it out, although I question that since walldive beats its startup if you walldive sim on wakeup.
His arguement appears to be that guile/sim vs. claw is essentially the same in HDR as it was in ST, or well that’s how I’m interpreting it. You argued that sim/guile have it easier in HDR.
Easier here is probably bad wording. Less favor/more favor would be better terminology for this.
Did I interpret correctly?
^^Yep, Coth hit the nail on the head. I thought you agreed with me too, Shari. Kind of a weird argument, but as long as we’re debating civilly, I got no problems. = )
I’ve always wondered how Ryu loses to Zangief? You’d figure he could zone him all day with hadoukens and sweeps? And the fake FB has to help too!
Because if Gief gets in, it becomes problematic. Generally, you can keep Gief away, but you have to keep the proper range. Full screen is ok for Ryu, but also ok for Gief, because he can just lariat through FBs. 3/4 is better for Ryu because if he PPP lariats, he has to stay away and can’t close the gap on you, or else he eats a sweep xx FB or cr.mk xx fireball. It either connects or pushes him back. If he’s any closer, then Ryu is in some trouble.
If you fireball and he reacts or guessed properly, then you’re eating an SPD while recovering. One knock down from Gief and Ryu is in trouble. If Ryu gets a knock down, then you can pressure Gief all day with j.mp cr.mk xx fireball and push him into the corner.
Getting a sweep on Gief can also be tricky. KK lariat ends faster than PP lariat and has initial lower body invincibility. So, you try and sweep, it misses, and if you used cr.rh you eat an SPD on recovery. Cr.mk can also sometimes miss, and since Ryu generally needs to walk up cr.mk xx fireball, you will sometimes get cr.mk xx dragon punch which is no good.
You basically zone Gief out with st.mp on the ground, stuff all his jump ins with st.mk/st.lk/st.mp/dp and pressure him on knockdown. It’s early, so I’m kind of rambling, but it’s definitely a 5-5 match.
[quote=“Raakam, post:2335, topic:50765”]
since Ryu generally needs to walk up cr.mk xx fireball, you will sometimes get cr.mk xx dragon punch which is no good.
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most ryu’s i know will t+fp and then sweep, which I think makes it way easier to NOT dp when you low forward/sweep him xx fireball
I wouldn’t know where to put Zangief on the tier-list. When I think about his match-ups, I can think of how nearly every character has the advantage IF played correctly. However everyone makes mistakes eventually, even the best players.
I personally find Shotos my easiest wins but I find two or three Ryus who know the match can give me trouble, mainly the ones can control space quite well and not get cornered.
There was another post comparing Gief with Hawk. I don’t really play Hawk and don’t plan to but I have tested him for fun a few times and found that having a proper reversal helps A LOT. I also found his normals quite nice.
Saying all this, I’m pretty sure Zangief is bottom tier, he has too many bad/awful matchups. IMO his good matchups are Ryu, Ken, Boxer and Dictator (and by good I mean not they are not as bad as his other matchups)
Well he’s like the all or nothing type that hawk was/is. If he can’t get in, he loses, if he gets in, well he tends to be top tier.
One of the issues with ranking charts is that it varies depending on the level of play.
I think Zangief has one of the tougher learning curves so he tends to do poorly at lower levels but his effectiveness improves at mid level but goes back down again at the highest levels of play.
Dictator is really the only match he ‘should’ win at high level of play. But even if you look at him overall, I think he still is near the bottom tier.
His improvements in HDR are great but there are just too many matches that didn’t change enough.
Could I get your opinion of Haru Tejyo?