This much debate over tiers really is a testament that this is a great game. Everyone is playable and has good stuff. Just learn your character(s) and what to do in each match and don’t worry so much what pretend ranking your favorite character is :tup:
everyone agrees about the bottom tier though.
Hawk is mid, not bottom, so I don’t agree.
See people can’t even agree about what they agree on 
I disagree, or agree.
I dunno, I’m gonna check the freezer for pizzas.
Been saying for a long time hawk is mid.
In fact I think all the hawk players have. Yet the people who dont play him always throw him in the bottom tier. Hilarious.
Yeah after thinking about it (and adding Guile lol), I think cept for the bottom, each char is really well designed at this point, I like the bottom guys 2 but they just need a few changes to make them all mid or upper mid. I think the real discussion would be where is Honda and where is Hawk… more or less. Hawk under Honda, maybe? Some people may debate Ken and Sagat too. Sagat could be top or upper mid, if they just fix his ability to mix up FB’s consistently and fix his hitbox and MAYBE more priority on his upper cuts, he just doesn’t seem right to me.
i play honda.
not jigglynorris hawk is bottom tier.
How can they fix his ability to mix up fireballs consistently? That’s the responsibility of the player, not the character. You mentioned something similar before about Sagats being too predictable. Again, related to the player. As for his uppercut, it has to be done late, just like o. sagat in ST. When done correctly, it will beat all jumpins clean, and do great damage.
I think some of the problem has to do with Hawk being one of the lesser used characters in the game. From what I’ve noticed, there’s really no bell curve for T. Hawk. I’ve only met really good players are really horrible ones. As a Ken player, Hawk gives me the most trouble (more than DJ, Gief or Vega) because I really haven’t played that many.
you forgot honda as one of your “trouble” matchups, ha.
ken player lol
I actually want them to come out faster/better recovery (which is a change I’m sure most do not want). I know Sirlin said they are ‘similar’ in speed to Ryu (which I take as they are a bit slower, recovery wise), but I’d really like them to be maybe a tad slower than Akuma’s (who’s 40,40,40 if I recall?). Maybe 41, 41, 41?? True about the mix up, but I still think he becomes predictable, especially when a jump in, especially on his high tigers, gets him hit. It just doesn’t feel right to me, but maybe it should be like that. Tigeruppercut is still weak on priority, I just don’t follow why it has to be done THAT late to be effective. Does anyone think that Sagat is top or even really upper mid? I get it that he’s been such a powerhouse in SFIV, ST (old S) and Champ and people might want a break from his dominance, but I feel a SLIGHT change in one of these aspects could put him where he, at least to me, should be. He doesn’t need both an invincible uppercut AND Akuma like FB’s, but one or the other would give him a better and more ‘fitting’ performance.
Who are the best Sagat’s in HD with some youtube to support em?
Sagat can be deadly. Fast FB’s can be a zoning nightmare, damaging uppercut if done properly, and tiger knee which is fast and can be juggled and mixed into throws. I don’t know many good Sagat players, I actually don’t face too many great ones online. NappyNightmares is good and PSYKUP would be above average.
Why do people say NAPPYnightmares is any good? Whenever he see’s my name, he runs. I’m sure there are waaaay better Sagat’s online than him.
There was a very good Sagat player called pezman a while back, but he hasn’t been on live for quiet some time.
I haven’t seen one damn player rep sagat any good
They’re all just randoms online, and i’ll headbutt and super them all day long
Someone bring the muay thai terror back
? Was this a joke?
I’m sure too but I’ve yet to see them. He kind of wins by default.
Sagat’s Shot recovery right now is closer to N.Sagat than O.Sagat. If it had maybe slightly faster recovery (by 1 or 2 frames) to STILL keep him close to N.Sagat’s recovery rather than O.Sagat’s recovery, I think that would help. Don’t get me wrong, there’s nothing wrong with the way it is now. All I’m saying is his Shot recovery feels more like N.Sagat than O.Sagat, and that sucks. How many times have you seen N.Sagat win a tourney? Exactly.
i thought it was similar to ryu’s recovery(sagat’s tigers)?
something sirlin said im pretty sure
and doesnt ken’s hado recover faster than ryu’s?
i think sagat shouldve at least had faster recovering shots than thiers(even if it was by a frame or 2 or 3 or 4)
Ryu’s Hadoken recovery 40/41/42
N.Sagat’s Shot recovery (according to YBHand NKI’s site) 37/39/41
O.Sagat’s Shot recovery (according to NKI’s site SSFII Sagat) 37/37/37
Note from NKI’s site:
- In CE and SSF2, the recovery time of the Tiger Shots is fixed, but in ST (and for some reason in HF, also), it is determined by the normal that was done just before the Tiger Shot. In other words, you can shorten the length of the Tiger Shot?s recovery time by kara canceling a Jab or Short. In AE, it is unclear if this was corrected for HF Sagat, but for ST Sagat (both the altered ST and original ST versions), it depends on the strength of the previous High Tiger Shot. (Tested on the PS2 version.)
Since N.Sagat’s Shots can be kara cancelled, theoretically he has the same recovery as O.Sagat. I don’t know but that doesn’t sound right. Even when it’s kara cancelled, O.Sagat feels like he has WAY better recovery. Maybe it doesn’t have anything to do with recovery, but rather travelling speed of the Shots? I’ve always thought that O.Sagat’s Shots cross the screen much faster than N.Sagat. Those things fly like bullets. That could just be me though.