The only way to combo into st.HK is by linking it from st.LP, which is not very easy to confirm.
Yea. S.hk is great for punishing people and tag combos. Didn’t actually realize how big the difference was, but i just broke 650 dmg using it. Same combo with the FLA cancel at the start is 580.
This combo is for something different. Can start it from footsies, or with a meaty s.lp or s.lk. React to the mk, mk hitting or being blocked and either go into FLA cancel combo, or finish the mk chain and cancel to dynamite heel. Can hit them for 400 dmg for letting you hit them with c.lk. Need to look at it that way when deciding if the difficulty/meter is worth it. Starting with s.hk is a lot more damage, but for you to start with s.hk, they need to make a mistake, or you need to put yourself at risk.
Sorry I jumped on you. Just want people exploring everything he’s got. No one has him figured out yet. We’re only a month in.
What chains are you guys talking about?
Also, is FLA cancel into the stance or somehow using the stance and then switching out against to manipulate recovery time?
Some of Hwoarang’s moves have FLA stance as a natural follow-up, and it does reduce recovery time. The stance can also be crouch-canceled to do non-FLA moves, but I find it’s usually better just to use the FLA moves in those situations.
I’ve browsed through the thread, but not sure if anyone has done much experimenting with Hwoarang’s Late Tiger Knee Air Raid. I have been able to connect a s.MP after it in training mode, but it really feels like a 1f link. Does not matter which strength you use it seems, but the timing to connect a s.MP is very very strict, after that the only thing that seems to hit is Hunting Hawk or s.HP/HK/Launcher, but that’s hardly the easiest confirm and is unsafe if it’s blocked… maybe dp+P dash forward to continue pressure?
Might not be great, but I read that people were basically saying that it doesn’t lead to anything so I just wanted to throw out there that it potentially can, just don’t know if the risk/difficulty is worth the reward.
This is because regular Air raid special is +6 on hit and in best case scenario (hit the opponent on the foot), and s.MP has 7 frame start up. I found that using the Low & High Smash Kick combo chain actually works off that though. And it can range from 291 damage (simple and meterless) to 509 damage (expending full meter, no switching). Best combo I found works like this
HK Air special Raid - s.LKx(slight delay)xMK - EX HH - j.HK - cr.MKxxHK HH. 448 dmg, 1 bar, no gems.
For some reason HK Air Special raid is easier for me to link from than LK ASR (I’ll just type that since I’m sleepy). Dunno if different strengths of ASR have different recovery or hitstun, etc etc. The slight delay in between the s.LK and MK is for the Low & High Smash chain, otherwise you’re getting a boost combo.
Something you guys might want to play around with after HK HK
HK.HH, backdash, MP Step then crossup with j.mp
depending on how close you started the HH it will either cross up or not, by walking a bit forward you can make sure it does. also using a EX step will make it reallllyyy ambigious but I dont think its worth it. You can also mix it up by doing a sweep instead of the jumpin and cancel it with heel or just use a LP step and bait out a roll. Alot of different options, definitly worth a closer look at
Something cool vs ppl who roll 100% on wake up after HK HH
immediate MK HH then hp special step to cross up their roll or medium punch special step to stay in front.
Only use it if you’re sure they’re going to roll though because it’s kind of awkward special stepping directly in front of someone 0.0
Interesting! As I have said earlier; doing heel on someone on their wakeup, will result in a command dash if they roll and you have timed it right! I am not sure if the timing will work to cross them up, but it could be worth trying: HK HH-> immediately MK HH -> MP or HP heel (OS command dash backwards)
I’m no expert in Frame Data, but that math doesn’t add up. If something is +6 on hit in best case scenarios, something with 7 frames of start up can’t be linked after it ever. It’d be impossible to get a combo so either the frame data is wrong somewhere or best case scenario, you get different frame advantage.
However, it seems it is a lot easier to link the s.LK after an delayed instant air raid special (lets just call it iARS to make life easy even though it’s not exactly instant). After looking at it more, it’s not actually bad. You can link s.LK after a close up iARS pretty easily as long as you do it right next to them. Only problem is that you only have 1 mix-up from there and that’s s.LK, s.MP, s.LP because s.LK, s.MK, s.MK or s.LK, s.MP, s.MP both whiff on the second s.MK/MP and none of Hwoarang’s standing normals except for HK are special cancellable…
More experimentation with it has led me to realize that c.LP may actually be better as it has longer range and basically is a better version of s.LK. However, I’m starting to realize that the hard part about implementing this isn’t actually getting htis link, that’s probably the easiest part. It’s executing the conversion into something else. I don’t know about everyone else, but I’m having a hell of a time doing DP specials from crouching SFxT and doing something simple as a delayed iARS, linking c.LP into special step is blowing my mind in terms of execution.
Maybe I’m over thinking it too much, but you could do something like c.LP x dynamite heel after and then go for cross-up, but that only makes me sad that ARS isn’t as great since you could force them to guess the cross up or dive kick on the same side, but that doesn’t lead into anything if it hits =[
Yeah, it doesn’t make much sense to me either (and that doesn’t take into account recovery),that’s why I offered the low & high smash kick option. It starts up in 5 frames. Not enough to hit confirm but at least you can special cancel out of the second hit anyway.
This is speculation but the attack might be more like +21 frames on hit, but with the 15 frames of recovery that’s why it shows up as +6. Also, the guide might be also from an earlier build or might be averaging the frame advantages on hit, as it is unlikely that you’ll always hit the opponent’s shins or whatever every single time.
As many people have probably noticed, the traditional crouch tech option-select (1LP+LK) doesn’t work too well with Hwoarang because he has a 1LK command normal which is very slow and easily frame-trapped. Fortunately, you can avoid this by using a different input. If you input 1LP+KKK, it will cause Hwoarang to enter Flamingo stance and immediately cancel it. He is vulnerable for the 1f of startup but can block again immediately afterwards. This technique makes Hwoarang go from being the easiest character to frame-trap to the hardest. It is a bit difficult to press all 4 buttons on the same frame, but it’s worth learning. Alternatively, if you have an 8 button stick, you can map your two extra buttons to LP and KKK to make this very easy.
Edit: I’m calling this the Teabag OS.
Edit 2: Apparently, the reason this OS doesn’t activate a quick combo is because Hwoarang’s default LP+HK quick combo cannot be used while crouching. How wonderfully convenient.
I hate that stupid db+lk attack. What a ridiculously poorly thoughtout input to have. Why not just make it b+LK?
I actually have a hard time figuring out why the db+LK is in the game, as far as I know, you only ever see it when the Hwoarang player makes a mistake lol.
I have no honest idea as to why it might be there except to maybe check low guard. Heck it would’ve been better to be just b.LK, but the startup is so horrendous it’s just so dang useless.
It has a similar startup animation to his overhead, so it has uses against people who have good overhead blocking reflexes.
I think they added down back command normals just for that reason. So some characters don’t get as much from a traditional OS crouch tech.
Not really. Least not from what I see. Hwoarang turns 2 different directions from his Iron heel (f+HK) and his db+LK. Also as far as I can tell, the only attack he has that gives him enough time to try either is his flashing trident.
Trust me people can’t react to which direction he’s turning, it even has the same startup as his f.mk overhead. I think it’s purpose is clear for feinting high/low, and b.mk is there to counter people who mash against these slow moves.
The turn is late in the animation, it’s pretty difficult react to that in battle conditions. It’s the first 5-10 frames, the step in, that looks the same.
And any frame advantage situation, not to mention wakeups, is an opportunity for an overhead if you are not abusing it, you don’t have to have huge plus frames before using it. If your opponent is conditioned to yield the right of way to you in a situation, then an overhead can catch him by surprise.