I keep fighting Cody and the Cody’s I have trouble with turtle and wait to throw out either his slide or his tornado punch I can’t figure out what to do about it. I think Cody’s slide trades with Hakan’s or beats it clean.
It seems like in general everybody is taking the turtle-unleash special move tactic against Hakan and I really struggle with it
I need serious help on the sagat matchup, im getting destroyed =/
if you dig through this thread there is some pretty good stuff about Sagat all I can say is don’t jump in on him unless you are close to him and don’t do it all if he’s got Ultra, I do best against Sagat if I can stay right around Hakan’s F-HP range
Dude use c.HP to get in. it’s his best ranged poke
For the people having problems with crossup chars like DJ… try to oil up even if it means 1 KD… you have THE best backdash in the game, just backwards dash active gets you out of that. Proven.
Also if they try to get psychic and punish your backdash… IS pretty hard to punish Hakans backdash. I think we should make a list of things that can punish Hakans backdash. I would like to know if ultradavids antishoryuken backdash dnc, can also stop jabs or shorts from crossup characters. I doubt it but I dont have the game to test it.
I think hondas match up is the worst hakan has as of right now.
BTW for the people saying U1 is way better or something, I respectfully disagree, the ammount of options you take away from your opponent is just stupid. They CAN’T use any airborne shenanigans.
Crossup characters see their game heavily limited just because of U2, even characters like dhalsim, who youd think will never jump, every dhalsim can eventually jump to try and mixup with teleports and whatnot, use his insta jump OH, if he likes to poke you jumping attacks after his fireballs, NOT happening, he can just watch how you ultra him even after he already hit you, all of this of course is not dhalsims strong ability, but they can do it sparingly, also he cant go air to air with you from 1/2 screen away or less because he takes MASSIVE damage from strong juggle U2 since he is dhalsim. If you corner dhalsim, which I found easy to do once you are already in (kinda hard still for me, but doable) he will use jump drills or mummy to get out (Again U2), his teleport just puts him back in the corner, since he cant teleport far from you, and if he techs the obvious throw (which you can beat with oiled 360), watch for what he does usually, teleport and backdash are punishable with slide, if he backjumps jump with him nail him and ultra him.
Id see how U1 could be a lot more useful against characters that can heavily change their air landing, like akuma, t.hawk, MAYBE viper. Or chars that do not need to jump at all, like… Sagat, cant think of anyone else right now.
At the end just think how this affects the strategy of your opponent if even then you think you dont limit him enough to give you an advantage for just getting your U2 flash, then U1 by all means.
Ill add information on match ups as I play them, cause right now I dont know or experimented with every hakan option enough to KNOW what is good.
i abused the 360+k yesterday and i was surpriced how well it works specaly against player how know that they need to duck!
its like “jumpin–>360+P; Jumpin–>360+k; Jumpin-C.mk xx Slide” mixup (if you can save jumpin thats male the enemy totaly braindead some start always jumping if you jumpin save and then you got them into your mixup with 360+k its risky YES but since you should mix it up and learn to read the opponend you realy got them there!
i assume much more use from the 360+k when its mastered then its imagined now i even try to punish with it instead of c.MK xx slide since its a save MK-Oil + Positioning into cornertraps!!
i realy do not use any of his EX ones except they are NEEDED his Super is a GREAT Tool! but it wiffs often since the hitbox for the grabbingpart is somewhat strange
specialy against some charakters the Super is BRILLIANT!! they dont freejump on Hakan anymore stay groundet even if you get close and thats devastating and if they dont play like this BAMM 400dmg Super and you got much supers since the Oilrocked give MUCH ex-meter!
EX-Slide (Fireballs)
EX-DDT (Grabbler)
EX-360+P (Reversal)
EX-Oil (???) i see no sense at all for it HK last long and take the same time to do (i previously thougt it takes less but it didnt!) maybe it is save against some moves like Bisons Stomp and worth it if you can oilup and punish IF THERE IS NO SUCH MOVE dont use it!
if there is no need dont use them for extra damage and save for the Super im starting to do not use EX - Oil at all even when it means a bonus to HK Oil
Hakan seems for me that capcom try to give him a tool for ALL situations but no “wondertool” like EX-Messiahkick or such just a specified tool for a specified situation and you need to know wich tool in which situation is needet
thats my consens i found out at the moment as excample i devastatingly beat a realy good dalsim online yesterday he punched the shit out of me 3 times even bevore super with my Zangief (and i never hat problems with the matchup) after using DDT well and save i punishedhim badly
his c.HP seems to be a great tool for DAMN I DONT KNOW YET but it seems to be a great tool for SOMETHING LOL!
besides except that u2 is nice and beat a lot i would avoid it!! and only use it against specal charakters ; the ones which gaestrategy is araound jumping but the U1 is a much greater tool for “KEEEP AWAY” specialy since it hase such a great range / startup / setups1
Been experimenting with potential option selects with Hakan and I think I found two, anyone care to test them? I tried it out against Rufus and Chun, for what it’s worth
j.HP buffer in Ultra 2. I controlled Rufus and did EX Messiah on wakeup, the j.HP whiffed and got hit with the ultra 2.
c.LK buffer in Ultra 2. I did this against a Chun in the corner and it worked. If she backdashes out of the c.lk, it’ll whiff and you’ll get ultra 2 to come out.
Been experimenting with potential option selects with Hakan and I think I found two, anyone care to test them? I tried it out against Rufus and Chun, for what it’s worth
j.HP buffer in Ultra 2. I controlled Rufus and did EX Messiah on wakeup, the j.HP whiffed and got hit with the ultra 2.
c.LK buffer in Ultra 2. I did this against a Chun in the corner and it worked. If she backdashes out of the c.lk, it’ll whiff and you’ll get ultra 2 to come out.
Yeah, I also tried something similar before with jump HK on Viper. Catches both her HP TK and EX BK on wake up. If she backdashes, though U2 misses…unless she’s in the corner.
When Vega goes airborne, U2 obviously (this includes when he goes horizontal; it will still catch him). But if you don’t have it ready, jump back fierce is a decent option.
Hakan vs. Abel
Mid-range 50-50 situation:
There’s not much to say in this situation. Hakan loses in footsies against Abel. Standing short is just too fast for Hakan to punish or counterhit. It’s possible, but it’s like 1 in 10 times towards-jab or standing strong will actually hit Abel, and most of the time it’s a trade. Once Abel gets you locked down in this, it’s pretty hard to get out unless your oiled up. If Abel is a little over-zealous in his usage of standing short, a well times Oil Rocket will stop his pressure. Of course, this is a huge risk to take. Your best bet in this situation would be to already be oiled up, once Abel lands his towards+mk, the mix-up begins. Hakan has great ways to deal with this, but more on this in the Defense section.
Offense:
Unoiled, Hakan has few options against Abel. DO NOT use towards+hk or towards+mp up close, Abel can reversal each of them with TT. If you want to use either of them, use them at max-range. Even then, on block, Hakan is at a disadvantage when it comes to options:
post towards+hk options on block (no oil):
-Abel can reversal grab Hakan after a blocked towards+hk used upclose
-Abel’s grab beats Hakan’s grab. After blocked max-range towards+hk they both whiff.
-Abel’s grab beats Hakan’s normals on blocked close towards+hk. At max range Hakan’s low+mk will stuff Abel’s whiffed TT.
-Abel’s grab whiffs on Hakan’s backdash/jump.
-Abel’s normal stuffs Hakan’s grab since Abel’s out of range. This is bad, since this gives Abel an opportunity to land towards+mk.
-Abel’s normal cause a trade, Hakan can even block in this situation. This is bad as well since it gives Abel an opporunity to land towards+mk.
-Abel’s normal will whiff on Hakan’s backdash but will hit him out of his jump.
As you can see, all Abel needs to do on block from close range is reversal TT. From max range towards+mk will beat out everything or make Hakan block, which is bad since in this situation Hakan has no oil and is on the defense. All Hakan can do is max-range towards+hk and then backdash right away. Smart Abel players will catch on to this and come after you by dashing towards you. The options are pretty much the same against Hakan’s towards+mp on block. Up close it can be punished with reversal TT, and from max range Abel can just towards mk to mount his offense. Be sure to backdash if Abel blocks anything from max-range.
With oil, Hakan’s offensive options post blocked towards+hk and towards+mp improve, thanks to backdash dnc. Backdash dnc to low+mk beats pretty much EVERYTHING. You still have to use both towards+mp and towards+hk from max range, however all of Abel’s options get beat by backdash dnc into low+mk, which can hitconfirm into slide. You can also do backdash dnc into low+lk, to tick into a throw. However, most of the time you’ll already be out of range after a towards+hk to use low+lk. All of Abel’s grabs whiff anyway since he’s out of range, also, Abel’s normals will whiff when you backdash dnc. This is not 100 percent fool proof though, Abel can simply mistime his normals to throw you off, or he can even backdash out of everything and reset the situation. It just helps give Hakan some offensive options off of blocked max-range towards+hk or towards+mp.
You can also fadc into dnc as a follow-up to max range blocked towards+hk or mp as well. It’s a bit more risk since you accumulate grey health but it will stop Abel’s toward+mk. Be cautious, Abel can simply dash up and TT you.
Remember, MAX RANGE
Also, be cautious when using your beefy ass normals. Smart players will focus your towards+hk, make sure to throw in a standing hp or slide when you see your opponent charge up a focus.
Defense:
Without oil, Hakan’s defensive options are limited. Use the usual pokes to keep Abel out, stay out of towards+mk range. While unoiled, your whole goal is to find a gap, or score a knockdown so you can oil up. Once Abel gets in with towards+mk, you’re pretty much going to have to play the guessing game.
Oiled up Hakan is a complete different story. Focus dnc or back dash normal cancel jump ins. If Abel gets in with his towards+mk, back dash normal cancel beats ALL of his options. It’ll beat TT, normal grab, close standing fierce, and even crouching lk block strings. Always back dash normal cancel into low short, as other normals are too slow against TT. The timing for the backdash normal cancel is a bit tight, but it’s definitely worth learning. It complete negates Abel’s rushdown, and you can easily score a knockdown for more oil.
EDIT: sorry guys, on further testing this is all wrong. The timing for using bdnc against close fierce or TT are different, since close fierce can land while you’re still in blockstun and TT can only land while your out of blockstun/hitstun it doesn’t quite workout. Although a pretty neat option, bdnc is just as much of a guessing game as deciding whether to block or jump.
On wake-up, backdash normal cancel will beat a lot of Abel’s options. I can’t think of a normal that has enough active frames to negate the effect of backdash normal canceling. Again, if Abel decides to pressure on your wakeup always go for the knockdown with backdash normal cancel. Oil up, as long as your oiled. Abel will have a tough time knocking you down.
s.F+rk is -5 on block.
unless you’re hitting at the tip of his foot, its unsafe against any character
we all know that, but what i’m pointing out is how you would use it in the Abel matchup specifically.
Abel starts his rushdown with towards+mk, which will shut down your offensive pressure (if he happens to block your towards+hk). What I’m saying is that you can keep that offensive pressure going by backdash normal canceling into another normal (after Abel blocks your towards+hk or towards+mp from max range), if he happens to throw anything out he’ll get hit by that normal, which will keep him from stopping your offense.
Just laying down some ideas for a battle plan against Abel.
Something that works well against rog if he’s jumping in with fp or rh, f+mp does wonders. I know someone mentioned it before as an anti air, and man does it help in the Rog match up. It also seems that f+mp is an overall decent AA, but i think it won’t be successful against characters with higher jump arc’s, like Juri aka the whore, and chun ho.
Haven’t read the entire thread, so I don’t know if this has already been mentioned, but F+MP beats Juri’s dive kick. I was playing against a friend yesterday and decided to open one of the rounds with F+MP, and he decided to open with a dive kick. Hakan won.
The timing might be pretty strict because I couldn’t get it to work again, but it’s still nice to know, considering the sea of dive kicking Juris that are online at the moment.
yeah I fought a Juri who kept jumping back and if I moved forward she used dive kick on her jump back and I couldn’t seem to knock her out of it because my reaction time is really bad I couldn’t catch her with my Ultra 2 either
although I did do something pretty sweet with Hakan’s air grab I caught someone with it when I was jumping backwards and they were finishing a jump forwards
What can Hakan really do against a turtling Dee Jay or Guile? Since he has no overheads, no projectile, no chip and his jump telegraphs from a mile away, he seems to have few options for breaking their defense.
gotta be patient… ex oil slide if you get to the right distance. coward crawl. See if you can bait them to you. But yea its a hard fight, dee jay more so imo.
He is pretty bad against Akuma. I played a long set today against him and it just feels hopeless at the moment. You will never get the chance to use oil, his wakeup options are very weak. Sure you can land a couple baited c.fwd to slides and get a little lead. But you are just going to get rushed down and be blocking mixups. Air to air is very bad. You can to j.strong for air to air, but with any shoto getting the knockdown does not really put the momentum in your favor.
I try to do the slippy grab (360+K) on wakeup as a gimmick. Useless against any shotos. I never seen people use this move. But you have to know the excat range to land it on the ground, and you can just block, or hold down back and it whiffs (EVERYONE that plays this game holds down back at every moment.) So your chances of landing it are very slim. Trying to land this on reaction is hard at the moment but might be useful in the future. At the moment i total removed his command grab from any offense that i might build. 98% of the time i am not covered in oil so i find the grab just whiffs all together. I rarely, if ever use it at the moment.
Sure you seen the videos about his wakeup options but you will NEVER be oily against any player with half a brain. And if you do get a chance to use the oil they will just stay away from you. People are telling me to just give up on Hakan all together but i am going to stick it out just a little while longer. Hopefully his options will grow. For right now… he has a lot of bad matchups.
Sounds like you are not experienced enough with the character, that’s all.
You can handle Akuma in so many ways… It’s really easier than when I played Gief…