The Hakan General Discussion Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1441

just want to sum up the discussed tactic in this page of post started from Mordie, please verify:

[ Dive > f.dash > jump-over > f.mp xx CHOICES ]
[ Slide&Press > jump-over > f.mp xx CHOICES ]

CHOICES:

  1. delayed lk.dive - uncrouchable against sagat if they blocked f.mp standing
  2. delayed hp.slide
  3. if oiled, wait > Rocket
  4. if oiled, FDNC c.lk setups
    -loses to wake-up dp

[ Slide&Press ( / Dive? ) > n.jump > f.j.air throw (just before reach ground) xx OS ex/Rocket/U1 ]
-loses to wake-up dp
-the low air throw will catch wake-up dash back
-dive setup dont work?

[ Slide&Press > c.mk (/or c.mp with extremely tiny step forward) > f.j.air throw (just before reach ground) xx OS ex/Rocket/U1 ]
-loses to wake-up dp but wiff/wins reversals from Sakura/boxer/fei/ibuki/claw/cody/adon/sagat/rose/makoto
-the low air throw will catch wake-up dash back

[ Slide&Press > c.mk (/or c.mp with extremely tiny step forward) > f.j.mp/hk ]
-loses to wake-up dp
-catch wakeup back-dash & jumps
-works well vs ibuki

1442

That f.mp xx delayed lk dive is uncrouchable against almost all characters, even if they block. Not just Sagat. Everything else looks good, as far as I can tell.

1443

Speaking of wake-up f.mp xx delayed lk dive on reaction to a waking standing opponent, I’ve found it’s very difficult to pull off against some characters. I thought there was something wrong with me, when I couldn’t seem to do it against Gouken, for example. The problem is, some characters’ animation is slower to crouch or the contrast isn’t stark enough between standing and crouching. Chun-Li, for example, is very easy to judge between standing and crouching on wake-up, so you can quickly make a decision as your f.mp connects and you buffer the 360 motion, whether to press the lk button or not. Cody is also very vulnerable as is Vega. Anyway, just something to consider, if you’ve tried this and failed. It’s possible to do, but maybe not against everyone.

1444

So if you do slide-press, lk oil, bdnc-mk, not only do you beat c.lps you dodge some reversals like lp uppers from Dudley and Sagat. I dodged Ryu’s a couple times, but I couldn’t reproduce it. Disappointing.

1445

I have the utmost respect for Uryo but seeing his 2012 tier list, it really is taking the pee.

Top Tier: Akuma, Seth, Abel, Makoto, Dictator, Boxer, Claw, Sagat, Guile, Rufus, Sakura, Cammy, Adon, Viper, Fei-Long, Chun-Li, Dhalsim, Juri, Ken

Mid Tier: Honda, Blanka, Gen, Evil-Ryu, Oni, Ryu, Yun, Yang, Ibuki

Low Tier: Zangief, El Fuerte, Gouken, Rose, Dan, T-Hawk, Deejay, Guy, Dudley, Hakan

1446

I agree with Hakan still low tier. Tier list are just top to bottom cheapness list. Do you think Hakan is cheap?

1447

Still low tier…but assuming this is in order, Hakan dead last? No way will I ever believe Hakan is the worst character in the game, and that’s in AE nevermind 2012…forgetting character loyalty. I know it’s spoke about all the time and I don’t know why this is, but I find a little disrespectful…I think i’ve became too attached, haha.

And no of course Hakan isn’t cheap, cheap is a harsh word I don’t know if I could go branding it around except to Yun, Yang, Fei

1448

It seems to be possible to do a wake-up s.mp, OS f.mp xx, c.mk xx slide. The slide comes out for both f.mp and c.mk, as the timing is the time for the combo. Both give enough time and indication to allow for the slide to be done on reaction. (For those that don’t know, on CH, s.mp combos into c.mk). As a side note, the reason I wouldn’t do f.lk in this case is because you’ll get an oil up instead of a f.lk with this set up.

1449

Nice one, I did mess around with this so good to know you’ve managed to get it working consistently. Best option if they block the st.mp?

1450

I wouldn’t say I can do it consistently. I just confirmed that it’s possible and appeared to me to be plausible to get good at, although I don’t know that I would pursue mastering such a difficult technique. If they block the st.mp, there are a few possible follow ups that are useful. F.hp or f.hk or dash with throw. I wish Ultra David would come around more often to discuss this stuff, personally. That guy really knows his SF.

1451

Yeah totally, if it wasn’t for UD, a lot of stuff wouldn’t have been found out so early. He did a lot for Hakan, in the west anyway. But yeah, I think this OS is definitely manageable, when I did it, it was just hard to test, I could never get the slide, but I think if I was practicing against a human opponent I would be able to do it, it’s also a lot easier than punishing with LK oil dive

1452

Yeah… it’s faster and more damaging. Neat technique, especially when you have a back dash spammer. Of course, I don’t know that it’s fast enough to catch Chun with s.mp. Maybe we can try it with a lp or something.

1453

This will come in handy against the 9 dive-over characters and will be more useful in 2012. A deep j.hk followed by hk dive is too quick to be thrown and will catch jumps and back dashes. Mix that with j.hk throw. Similarly, a deep j.mk, mk dive does the same. One could also do j.hk, lk dive and dive over Vega’s head or if he blocks standing or gets hit standing, deep j.hk, lk dive would be uncrouchable, of course. Maybe not useful yet but with mk dive in 2012, it might be worth the pay off.

Also, Makoto is vulnerable to slide-press, jump over, lk dive. It will stuff her command throw, jumps and will dive over her head if she crouches. It also causes wake-up ultra 2 to whiff against her. Pretty neat. It’ll be better with mk dive in 2012, of course or oily EX. (Keep in mind that Makoto is not vulnerable to any other type of overhead dive at this time, other than lk with perfect timing; also, wake-up back dash will beat lk dive so don’t overuse).

1454

Mordie wheres that thing you posted about f.lk and st.mk and dodging reversals?

1455

I deleted it, because it’s something that belongs in a Hakan lab thread. I have been finding s.mk to be interesting, though. I’m definitely going to use slide-press, lk oil, BDNC (using as many invincible frames as possible) s.mk. That’s a cool one, the way it dodges Sagat’s and Dudley’s lp uppers. The other thing I’ve been looking at it for is setting up dashes. If you’re oily, pressing back+s.mk looks like you’re moving backward, when you’re actually staying put. Then you hide the input to dash, too, since forward-forward has a few extra frames to broadcast the dash… Might help against opponents with crazy good reflexes, when you’re trying to dash, 360.

1456

Good stuff. The reason I asked was because I’ve really been working with using frametraps, so I’ve been really looking for stuff that beats button presses. St.mk seem to be real good counterhit move, but I really like cr.mp as a frametrap, works reaaally well.

1457

bdc’d normals inherit backdash invincibility? :open_mouth: @_@

1458

They do have a moment of invincibility, yes. There are something like 7 frames of invincibility to utilize to dodge throws and jabs, allowing you to, for example, wake up safe from throws and jabs and come back with your own jab (or something else quick).

Drew says:

. It’s quite good not just as a hit, though. It’s good for the way it moves his head out of the way of uppercuts and the like and moves you forward at the same time. In fact, one thing I was finding while further experimenting with f.lk, s.mk, is that at certain ranges, uppercuts will get the boot in the foot while Hakan’s head moves clear of the attack. It’s an elusive move that can even set you up for dry throws against lp upper, if you are certain distances, interestingly, as you dodge.
,

1459

It feels wierd goin from a defensive standpoint in the first 10 seconds of the Round to an offensive one. It took me about ten games to realize, “Oh. I have oil. Let me yank you up now.”

1460

Haha, this is so true. It took me a while into the game until I realised I have Oil already. Just playing for a long time thinking about when I need to oil from each star of the matct, it’s kinda hardwired into my brain now. Trying to fix that. Plus the amazing lk oildive anti-air on reaction. it’s finally pissible. So just liek the Oil start of each round, I forget I can do this now. Man, I feel like a little kid on Christmas morning. This is amazing :slight_smile: