So someone a while ago mentioned that you can stuff Chun’s EX bird with j.mk, if you do it right. Easy way is to slide/press, backdash, j.mk.
and heare i strike AGAIN a new discovery for all the Hakan Fanboys g
instead of a DEEP HK into uncrouchable LKOil try a HP! it hase a much higher hitbox and will automaticly be much deeper specialy usefull in savejump setups maybe the DDT can be optinselect as well im not sure yet but it is deadly manouver if you jump streight and your opponent has no good AA^^
Wait, I don’t understand, do you mean after an oil slide?
no there are some setups but you can just jump streight after many situations specaly against grabbler like able everyday when you assume a grab as excample just try hp out if they block reakt with a lk-DDT its easy like hell to catch them in the blockstun not as hard as a HK timing
I don’t think it’s easier to time, personally, but it is better, due to more range and larger hit box. Just be careful, because if you try it against some characters, they’ll just duck under it.
Try mp rocket, dash, jump hp against Sagat or Abel. You have a decent chance of a blockstun, lk oil dive, if you have practiced the timing to get it deep.
So here is a very nice safe jump set-up that unfortunately, doesn’t work perfectly against everyone: EX oil rocket, s.lp. j.hk/mk. It works perfectly against, that I know of, Honda, Balrog, Rufus, Cody (except for ultra 2), Juri and Vega. You have very little room for error against super and ultra against, for example, Honda, but otherwise, it works great. Should help.
[edit]So this is quite good against a lot of characters, although you definitely have to be careful of supers. I would not do this if Ken or Bison has a super, for example. Also, against srks, do an empty jump and punish. This is about as close to being a safe jump without actually being a true blue one against these guys. It should provide plenty of punish opportunities. Much better to do this, IMO, against most characters, than it is to do the c.lk safe hp meaty slide.
So this might be my best discovery ever, at least for one’s emotional well-being. It has been pretty well accepted that oil dive blows against jump attacks. As it turns out, it’s quite handy against neutral jumps from the right distance and with the right timing. This has practical applications, as well.
Couple examples (the first one is an easy one to do):
You jump attack on opponent wake-up and try to tic dry EX spd him, and he neutral jumps and lands a huge combo. Sucks… profoundly. But, if you jump attack, s.mk (creating the appearance of a dry rocket attempt) and do a 360 motion toward your back, walking backward (doing the 360 in such a way that you do c.defense for a split second is safer, of course), giving time to confirm a neutral jump, you can quickly tap lk to dive them on their way down. The opponent neutral jump attack misses, because the back end of Hakan’s body on oil dive is not easily hit. You’re almost crossing under them. Terrible against jump ins and backward jumps. Great against neutral jumps, as they try to avoid your EX rocket.
Another example: During a battle, an opponent jump attacks but not deep enough to avoid your EX rocket, but they are fast learners. The next time after their jump in, they immediately neutral jump to avoid the EX rocket, and you’re screwed so badly. With this technique, use the block stun of the initial jump in to 360 and try doing c.defense or walking backward until you confirm the neutral jump, at which time you quickly hit lk. Good against, for example, Bison and surprisingly, even Chun Li’s j.hk. This is significantly harder than the aforementioned dive opportunity, but it can be done, should your opponent get a little predictable.
You just have to time the 360 motion so it will c. defense in time to block normals, if they didn’t neutral jump. Really, not very easy but should be useful to prevent spamming of neutral jumps, which happens sometimes.
Anyway, good times. Have fun with this. You’ll have to practice the timing and spacing as it’s pretty particular, but it’s not super hard, actually. You just have to get the feel for it. As a side note, for floatier jumpers, you may need to hold down the lk button to get the timing right.
@Mordie-Kay
i realy wish you would stop crap from your trickbox thats not even worth learning WHY? To less reward for to much RISK! you can punish a Straight jump pretty well when your reaktion is fast enugh with less risk and without a opening for low atacks…
**@Usefull
EX or HP-SPD -->F-LK–>HP-Slide
**
The Setup is save on block even against U1 from Zangief you get frameadvantage on block at least +2 since i did it perfekt and my ultra1 wiffed!
thats something usefull nobody would discuss but to open yourself for a low atack after a jumpin? SORRy thats no good IDEA!
What are you talking about? There is very little risk, as long as you aren’t predictable. That, and you don’t HAVE to walk backward. That’s just one way to do it. Regardless, when you do the 360 toward your back, the trick is to do it in a way where you do c.defense for a split second as part of the 360. That way, an immediate c.mk will be blocked. If they did neutral jump, you will do a split second of defense and begin to walk backward to set up. Regardless, as I said in the above post:
Walking backward was not a key component of this technique, although it can be useful. The important thing is that you can easily/safely oil dive neutral jumps, if you do it right. This, I say, is a pretty good find. I certainly wouldn’t call this a trick or gimmick considering you are doing defense while potentially getting a safe, confirmed oil dive to punish a commonly used technique. That’s the opposite of a gimmick.
If they’re inclined to not jump, then you use EX rocket more, which is much more risky if they do a neutral jump. Half the point of my technique is to reduce the risk of doing EX rocket by deterring the neutral jump. What other options do you have? S.hp? That’s not going to deter them from neutral jumping, because the pay-off for neutral jumping away from your rocket is huge. Maybe an air throw, but that’s not always viable and does a little less damage than an oil dive. It’s also less of a deterrent. The oil dive is scarier, plus it puts them in the corner and can give a mk oil up.
The pay-off is pretty big relative to the small risk. Not only do you get damage, get yourself a nice oil up and give yourself a wake-up opportunity, you set yourself up to do dry rockets with more safety, having taught them to not neutral jump. Also, if you’re quick, you can get mk or maybe even hard or EX dives against neutral jumps enacted from further away.
This is included in Japanese Hakan strats thread, but they say c.lk. It’s a good set up that I’ve personally overused to some extent. With c.lk, you get there too early sometimes, though, which means that you can whiff your throw, as they are still in block-stun! Doesn’t happen often, though.
Wow, I’m actually digging this find, Mordie-Kai, I’m definitely going to try it out.
I guess I’ll share a bit more on Hakan’s Oil Trap. Basically, you land a forward throw in a corner and do an instant LK Oil, the sequence goes as the following.
Forward Throw, LK Oil:
- Dash LP Oil Rocket.
[INDENT]- LK Oil, repeat fwd.RH set-up.- fwd.RH (Blocked)
-
LP Oil Rocket
[INDENT] - LK Oil, repeat fwd.RH set-up. -
Bait neutral or back jump, punish with fwd.MP. Normal throw (+U2 input) when reset.
-
Bait neutral or back jump, FADNC cr.LK, Normal throw (+U2 input).[/INDENT][/INDENT]
-
- fwd.RH (Hit)
[INDENT]- Normal throw (+U2 input) on wake-up.[/INDENT]
- fwd.RH (Blocked)
After any tech:
-
LP Rocket
-
Bait neutral or back jump, punish with fwd.MP. Normal throw (+U2 input) when reset.
This trap alone is the reason I pick U2 for match-ups such as Dudley, Guile, Cody, Abel, Boxer, and Makoto. I still haven’t gotten to posting vids of it, but I have footage of matches where it works.
upload them hoes haha.
If nothing else, it’s fun :). By the way, I’m interested in your f.throw set up, but I’m not sure I understand it so well, e.g. “f.hk set up” doesn’t make sense to me. I must have missed one of your earlier posts. Looking forward to a video, though. Anyway…
So I messed around with it a bit more and found something interesting. After slide/press or oil dive, hk dive is the perfect distance to catch descending neutral jump. I’ve been watching it in slow motion, and* your opponent is landing on Hakan’s shoulders as Hakan’s arms are outstretched*. Most characters have no chance of hitting you, as they’re too high above you and Hakan’s back end is too low for them. (Sagat’s j.mk appears to be an exception to this rule).
So, as a mere illustration of the timing but completely useless in practice, against Dudley, slide/press, lk oil, immediate hk oil dive will get him on the way down. If Dudley were to neutral jump, he’s toast. You can make a dummy Hakan do this against Dudley and try to play as Dudley, just to get a feel for its effectiveness and the timing.
Against Ken and Ryu, there is a slight delay before the hk oil dive, if you want this same result. They can, however, hurricane out of it, sadly. I think maybe, if you’re quick, you could get them on reaction. Not sure about this though. If they’re not very quick with a hurricane, you have them. Very, very cool, if you can get someone with an on-reaction hk oil dive during battle! How often do you get hk dive in on a good opponent? Frankly, I never do. I suppose this may be it’s only practical use, provided you actually *can *get people on reaction.
So I found something else pretty cool, while I was experimenting with the descending neutral jump oil dive punish. For people with shorter back dashes, after you slide/press, lk oil up, you can 360 toward your front, walk forward and quickly tap lp for a rocket on reaction to a back dash. Much safer than guessing with a hk oil dive, although it could be tough to time. Plus, if they happened to neutral jump, mk oil dive will catch them on the way down quite well, also done on reaction. Not too shabby, and with the oil, if they reversal, at least it takes a little less damage. If they do nothing (which is unlikely due to fear of EX rocket), you can quickly go to c.defense, of course.
You can do the same things after air throw and oil dive, of course, using s.lk and s.mp respectively following the lk oil up, to get your wake-up timing right.
Another set up for descending neutral jump dive punish: air throw, lk oil up, back+lk, EX dive instead of a hp rocket. (Back plus lk gets you out of range of light normals, which is nice, while it also gives you the right range for EX dive).
By the way, Hakan’s medium kick super could turn out to be better than we thought. If you’re in close against a grappler, if they neutral jump instead of throw, your mk oil dive will beat that, too, if you time it right. From the right distance, just hold it down and wait to see if they command throw or neutral jump, and you’ve got them either way.
I just dash and slide.
That’s the set up for slide/press, not for ex or hp rocket. That one is slower.
As a side note, I tried out the ultra 1, lk oil, dash, dash hp oil rocket today. That is a nice one :). Works well.
Also, missed an opportunity against Chun Li to oil dive her on her way down from a neutral jump. I got suckered. I’m going to get that in at least once a week from now on. ha ha
@Mordie-Kai: you’re saying that I can punish the neutral jumpers on wakeup with HK oil-dive? Even if they coming down with a mk?
tbh, I’d love to find a way to punish that n.jump tactic, its so annoying:mad:
I got a question, (might have asked this before). I’m really struggling against players who combos alot especial c.lp, c.lp, c.lp, c.mk>Hadoken combo from Ryu/Ken/Guile/Dictator(flip kick). They tend to crossup straight after the combo or just walk up and grab you. Is there a way to interrupt the combo?
I discovered that you can ex slide the hadoken/s.boom to punish them. Apart from that, what else can I do?:wonder:
If you are oiled you can lvl 1 focus xx f+mp xx hp slide.
no you CAN NOT L1 Focus it will get stuffed from every depp jumpin or emptyjumpgrab and its pretty obious too
but you can LP-SLIDE or Jump&Grab (charakter and jumpin depandend)
I been doing this forever after both ultras. I mix it up with dash, dash xx c.hp/s.hk also.
Negative. He was asking how it interrupt the block string. You can focus the fireball after the c.mk from ryu etc etc leading to Hakanbos. In regards to the jump then yeah. Just anti air it. Ive even ultra’d people jumping at me by coward crouch.