Not if you do it right, e.g. hp/EX rocket, c.lk, hp slide or slide/press, dash, hp slide. You have frame advantage, if you do it right.
If Abel does back dash, depending on what you do you have different reactions.
If you did meaty slide, you can spd him in recovery.
If you did DDT… Well, you’re fucked. Of course, if backdashing becomes a habit, you can easily switch up the version of DDT… Don’t make this a regular thing, though.
If you did meaty f.fp, I believe you will recover in time to AT LEAST be safe. You might be able to tag with a jab or something (not able to test atm)
If you did a crossup/jumpin, your jumpin will usually hit Abel for an air reset. Then, you can go for the low/throw.
Honestly, if he backdashes and you dont expect it, it could be a problem. Just be aware that it is a viable option for him but does not come without its counters.
About oil: Yes, when the match is at a neutral/footsie game, oil helps a lot, but creating the space is difficult. I -try- to keep Abel out as I do Gief (s.fp for grounded spacing and f.mp for jumping), and that helps me pinpoint mistakes.
You gotta punish dumb stuff. If you can do it, coward crouch under wheel kick to ultra 1/spd when in range. AA any attempted jumps. Keep it solid.
Also, when you block a f.mk, the safest thing you can do is block, yes. But also, you can normal throw (spd too, but normal is less risk) him out of the majority of his mixup; it beats s.fp, jabs, etc after f.mk. Of course, it loses to TT and is avoided by a jump. Just something to keep in mind for your defensive mixup.
Yeeeah more pointless ramblings.
For this discussion, you might start with the premise that a s.lk is as good a fake oil-dive as any.
So someone was asking about an alternate set up after air throws, and I happen to have one. Instead of just lk oil up and lk oil dive, try lk oil up, s.lk, walk-forward a tiny bit and fwd+hk. Knocks down back dash and slips under vertical jumps. You can OS HP oil rocket to punish vertical jump. Of course, the oiled f+hk has the special property of teching throws.
Furthermore, you can do lk oil up, back+lk (to move out of range of jabs) and hp oil rocket. Very effective against wake-up normals (or someone who just does crouching defense). HP oil rocket is very nice here due to oil, since if you hp oil rocket, dash, jump attack, which is the same set up as slide/press, s.mp whiff. Great place to take advantage of this. Plus, it gives you a huge amount of gauge and plentiful damage. Well worth the risk of doing and probably a better idea here than doing lk oil dive, as it’s probably safer and more damaging, plus it gives you a superior set up in the aftermath.
can anyone help me with executing OS U2’s? I’ve found the best way to test if im doing it correctly is to record hakan doing the setup after knockdown from slide (walk backward slightly, j.rh os u2) and then try to get out of it with the other character.
That said, I can record hakan OS’ing honda on wakeup for buttslams/backdashes/and lp headbutt, but I cannot get the OS to work on the EX headbutt (I get hit before the U2 can even come out). I’m assuming this is because the startup of the ex headbutt is quick (7 frames maybe), and I also tested the same recording on chun-li, and it also gets beat by ex sbk.
So my question is: does anyone have any tips to get the U2 to come out faster? I am buffering it correctly so that it doesn’t come out if it hits or is blocked, and it grabs backdashes etc, just seems to get beat by fast reversals. Any tips to help out?
my vid
[media=youtube]-wBzqPuYd7Q[/media]
I understand that the OS U2 is possible, I was wondering if anyone had any tips for executing it fast enough so that ex sbk and ex headbutt are caught by it. As is i’ve only recorded one OS correctly, and i have no idea what i did correctly that time that i wasn’t doing the others.
It might help if you change up your input a bit. Not sure if that’s the problem, but it helped me get more consistent and faster with OS U2 when I started doing Down+RH, Down, Down+3P. It helped make it more fluid for me once I got in the habit of it.
Or if your inputs are fine, you just might need to adjust your safe jumps a little.
im working on this for a while but its not even finished yet i want to insert all i know or read here into it but it takes to much time for me alone maybe someone will help?
So is anyone actually consistent enough with the OS U2 where they have no problem risking a jumpin against ex sbk or ex headbutt? Seems like the timing is very very tight and a few frames off means you eat a reversal.
I’ve been using Hakan (my first grappler in my life) seriously for the first time for about two weeks now. All matchups aren’t as a pain as I thought. Actually, a lot of matchups don’t stress me at all. However, there are three that I would go so far to call them “troublesome” and “irritating”. Those would be Sagat, Bison, and Viper. Isn’t it ironic that those ones don’t have any strats here (A)
Hmmm, I wonder why . . .
Funny you mention that, those those truly are my most hated match-ups. There’s actually quite a bit of information on that though, from the set-ups to jump-in on Sagat, to the OS that can can cover Bison. Search function?
Umm…TT is the gateway to hell. Why do you think they keep nerfing the damage with each new game? They’re trying to tame it’s destructive power lol.
If you get TT, Hakan is in for a horrible 2 dimensional guessing game that he really cannot escape easily, unless he has U1…and even U1 loses to neutral jump and TT. Unlike Hakan’s wakeup options when Abel is knocked down (which are almost all very risky), Abel’s against Hakan are really not. And, they will lead to that exact same stun and damage that you mentioned.
And, anytime uncrouch DDT’s are your main strategy against someone, you know Hakan is in bad shape. We use those out of necessity, not because they’re actually good.
Sure, Hakan has options for everything Abel does…but, they are all guesses (the fundamental problem that Hakan suffers in this game). Guess wrong, and Hakan loses just as much if not more than what he could have gained.
The fact remains that TT is always a better option than taking a full combo, that remains constant between every character. That was my point.
I never said that DDT was the -main- offensive option. I said that it in part helped supplement the already good oki we have against him. And yes, they are good depending on the character (this case Abel, in which they are really effective). The risk/reward is well worth it to me; one good guess (made even better by Abel’s lack of options) + conditioning and take him to the corner/oil/whatever.
Meaty oil slides are only positive on block, but if he does wakeup ex.TT, your slide whiffs and you get thrown. ex.tt owns all strike meaties, period. I mean you could whiff oil dive out of range, but i doubt there’s enough ambiguity in it to make him want to reversal TT.
Someone correct me if i’m off base here.
the main thing about DDT is that its even hittet with a Low normaly usaly is a good option since the reset is suprisingly for the opponent but not for us…
BUT WILL DDT setups are not soo good maybe in AE we can go for late DDTs and maybe then they are indeed helpfull how knows yet?
But, it’s not “always a better option” because TT can lead to the exact same full combo you were trying to avoid PLUS the damage and stun of the TT you just took PLUS Abel has more meter now. In that case, eating a TT is actually WORSE than just eating the combo in the first place.
So, in a mix-up scenario, I don’t believe you should view the TT as the “lesser of two evils”. It’s just as evil.
As long as a simple backdash is always a possibily (which it always is), I’m never comfortable calling uncouchable DDTs “good”. That’s not to say I don’t use them…I’m forced to. But, they’re dangerous, dangerous guesses. And, since Oil Dive has a 14 frame startup, I have to wonder if some players may even be able to react to the startup…
So, you’re saying that it’s better to eat a 300+ combo from trying to jump a tt AND get put in a equally bad/worse position AND give Abel more meter AND more stun AND probably get pushed farther to the corner?
Nah dawg. I’ll take my little tornado throw, go back to blocking and guess on the mixup (either way you’re guessing vs. his pressure but one is incredibly more beneficial).
And as for DDTs, yes, back dashing can get out, but thats equally as dangeorus for Abel since pressing mk instead of lk can easily take care of that (as can meaty > os sweep). Yeah, it isn’t something to do ALL the time (meaty os sweep is much more useful), but it still exists on like yomi level 545 or so.
I’ve been feelin’ the same concern about DDT’s lately. It did occur to me however, that a late oil dive is safer from neutral jumps than SPDs. You just dive underneath or catch them on the way up. Furthermore, against little characters, you can dive over their head, if they just block, like Chun-Li, Abuki and Cammy. Lastly, late oil dive is a good punish against both backdash and jumps, whereas Hakan’s other options are more limited to one or the other. Perhaps the late oil dive is better than the uncrouchable, provided you’ve been training them to fear the SPD?
If Abel has less than 2 bars, he won’t do 300+ damage off a combo, and you won’t be in an equally bad position as TT. His crouch elbow launcher is 8 frames, which means that you can often jump fast enough to only get tagged by the first, non-launching hit. So, with no meter, all he can do is a regular CoD combo which does 222.
And, in terms of wakeup mix-ups, eating a basic CoD is not as bad as eating a TT. So, yes, in that case eating the combo is much better than the TT.
Also, without meter it’s generally hard for Abel to land an Ultra on you. As I said, crouch elbow is 8 frames slow and short range. But, if Abel lands a TT on you, suddenly you have a very good chance of losing half your life in the next few seconds. No meter required. TT opened a door that the simple combo couldn’t.
All I’m saying as an Abel player AND a Hakan player is that landing a TT makes me VERY happy. IMO advising people to willingly accept TT over a combo isn’t a good idea. Because, to Abel, they’re one in the same.
I say avoid the combo AND the TT. Backdash more. Until he starts option selecting or predicting it, of course. But, even then, forcing the 3rd option makes Abel’s life slightly more difficult.
Also, after a blocked step kick, reversal Oil Rocket should beat any attack Abel does except non-EX TT and regular throw…
Wow, so scary for Hakan. You gotta have them trained like a dog before you take it to that level, or life will be painful…
I would consider this much more against people who like to backdash, e.g. Rose or Cammy, of course only when oiled when they fear the rocket.