The Hakan General Discussion Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
781

If I understand correctly, regular throws will sometimes beat Hakan’s oil rocket, too (or am I wrong?) If that’s the case, what about doing a 360, ending in a crouch and pressing lk+lp+mp? Or would you even need the crouch in that case? (As crouch is necessary for lk oil dive to work while pressing lk+lp). I was going to try that next. If you’re short on EX, this might be useful.

[edit]Nope, you can’t get oil rocket to work like this. Too bad. Also, I added in a s.hp to my Rufus dummy, and it did indeed beat crouching defense, throw-teching oil dive. I was messing around with Hakan’s neutral stance against the dive kick and did a coward crouch to complement that. Dive kick, s.hp whiffs completely, and you have time to get up and punish. That said, it seems way too risky and inconsistent to try in a real battle. Fun to mess around with, though. I could be wrong that it’s worthless, but ya’ never know. Maybe it’ll come in handy to avoid the last little chip damage and make a miracle come back. I don’t know Rufuses well enough to determine if this would do anything remotely useful.

Also, I’m still going with the defensive/tech-throwing lk oil dive against the Rufus (and Cammy?) rush down. Against the typical Rufus online, it’ll be good.

[edit]Yup, it works against Cammy, too. Tried it out.

782

Crouch is necessary… If you’re at standing a throw will override whatever you’re trying to do and come out every time.

Using throw tech to execute specials is most beneficial after a jump attack I think, when there is a window where you can tech, but you CAN’T block or do moves. You might as well mash your throw here, and when you come out of the window, your special comes out. (Ending at defensive crouch another beneficial thing here, because of the blocking window)

Using it otherwise only works if they throw you before you actually hit the buttons and do you special move. So using throw tech to execute rocket will do NOTHING to stop you from getting thrown out of it, it will be as if you didn’t use the tech at all. The tech will only work if they throw you BEFORE you hit the button for your rocket. So using this is reversal situations is useless, because when you reversal with the rocket, the throw tech does nothing… there is no “before the rocket” time where you can get thrown and the tech will work. This goes for all specials executed with throw tech.

That said, it DOES cover an option outside of reversal situations, and it’s not like it’s a detriment in any way (except execution-wise), so hell, go for broke. crouch-block or tech-execute the shit out of those special. lol

Hrm… when I think about it though, wouldn’t the input overlap make a dive come out instead no matter what (from the kick part of the throw input)? I’m not sure how overlap priority works with Hakan’s specials.

783

I couldn’t get Hakan to do an oil rocket at all when pressing lk+lp+mp. He just does oil dives, as you speculated. I thought that mp would have priority over the light kick, but it doesn’t.

784

@Mordie-Kai,

I was in training vs Rufus and I got Oil Rocket instead of Oil Dive, I was able to replicate it a couple of times. Just with lp+lk. The first time it was totally unexpected, then I was able to replicate it a couple of times… Its really tricky.

The trick is releasing the lp before the lk. You can test it by jumping doing the 360+lk+lp in the air and when you touch the ground release only the lp, you should see in the input only the stick moves and the lp+lk.

I was testing with Rufus doing the dive into s.lk,s.lk,…etc, if I did it correctly I grabbed Rufus with a reversal Oil Rocket after the first s.lk. Its not easy at all, but its possible… and probably a better way to do this since if the oil dive or tech didn’t come out its probably because you are blocking (if you did it correctly), so he didn’t do a second dive kick… in which case the oil rocket is what you want.

785

Bub… I’ll take that into consideration. That said, I don’t know that it’s worth the extra work for me; sounds too tricky and probably not nearly useful enough. Still, interesting. I’ll leave it to others to determine if that’s truly worth doing or not. I could be totally wrong and am interested to see what others say.

786

I did more training vs the Rufus pressure, I can get the Oil Rocket consistently if the Rufus goes for the s.lk after the dive kick. Here is how its done:

360, end it in down-back, lp+lk when the Rufus touches ground, if the Rufus throws a s.lk release the lp at the same time it hits you.

If done correctly the reversal Oil Rocket+LP should grab them.

787

I was thinking about this deal doing a tech throw for a regular oil rocket from crouch as opposed to oil dive. After some thought, I’m a little more open to trying this. It might help in one of my setups perhaps.

788

@Mordie-Kai, This is what I’m doing:
[media=youtube]9H8tJMbN_hM[/media]

789

That looks useful… at the same time, are you actually teching out of throws should Rufus try it immediately after the oil dive? If so, that’s really good to both tech out and oil rocket.

790

A few weeks ago, I played against Eric Kim’s Akuma in Maryland and got dizzied and/or perfected in every round of the 0-2 set. It was mostly because I had serious problems antiairing dive kicks, so he got in easily and started causing damage. I also had a really hard time dealing with Akuma’s far st roundhouse; at a couple points, he just did rh, rh, rh, rh and I was totally locked in.

So I went in the lab and looked into how to deal with dive kicks. Toward+fierce either beats it or trades in Hakan’s favor; toward+jab always wins if you time it perfectly, but that’s hard because he can vary his timing so well; air throw beats it; hp slide goes right under it; low mp deals with it well from far away; coward crouch goes under it unless he does the kick really late or unless he does the slide; and obviously u2 sucks it right in.

A week ago I played against Richard Nguyen’s Akuma here in SoCal, one of the best up and comers we have. He beat me, then I took two or three, then he took two or three. I could deal with dive kicks ok, but this time I mostly lost to Akuma’s far rh pressure and to Richard smartly pressing buttons just outside my unoiled ex grab range. So, how to deal with that.

Coward crouch goes right under Akuma’s far rh, and since the rh moves Akuma so far toward you, you can pretty much always get up and punish him with ex spd. Toward+mk and st mp also deal well with far rh. T+mk, t+lk, and cr mp deal well Akuma’s cr mk, and t+mk and st mp deal well with his cr mp. If you’re pretty far, cr lp xx lk ddt and t+mp xx mk ddt both beat Akuma’s far rh and uncombo into ddt.

Yesterday I played a first to 3 against Ed Ma’s Akuma. The last game was close, but he won the set 3-2. Ed doesn’t play that much anymore or take the game as seriously as he used to, but I still think it’s a relatively good showing for me compared to how I did against Eric not long ago.

I also went about even with Sanchez Cody (definitely the best Cody I’ve seen so far, not just in SoCal but in vids from other places too), about 4-6 against James Chen Cammy, and probably about 3-7 against Ed Ma Juri. Gonna have to look into the Juri match.

791

So ive been learning hakan lately but apparantly im still really confused…

Could someone explain some of the abbr. and the basic aa things?

I guess im not looking for the beginner like “I just started today!!! WTF DO I DO?!?”

Rather, i want to know more advanced things about hakan… if some people come help thatd be great

792

against Akuma HK’s a Backdash into Firce need a bit timing/spacing but can punish it great

793

I have to admit, I’m starting to want to use u2 more than u1. I often feel like the opponent doesn’t have enough reason to stay on the ground instead of jumping or backdashing away during my pressure, which makes landing u1 difficult. Sure, I land my share of predictive air throws, and I put standing mp and st fierce in my block strings, and it’s not the end of the world if the opponent wants to keep moving backward until he corners himself, but I still feel like my mixups aren’t as scary as they could be. Using u2 I guess is a way to address that. The mixup would become ex spd or u2 rather than u1 or air throw. Maybe u2 isn’t so purely defensive as I’ve thought, maybe it’s important in offense as well.

794

I kinda like having U1 so the opponent can jump at me while I’m waking up. I can either jump and grab them, normal them, or safest thing to just HP slide across the screen away from them.

When I have U2, they just stay close to me and poke at me after knocking me down. And if I’m not oiled, it’s very hard to get out of that. I feel like I get locked down easier if I’m waking up with U2, and they just stand nearby. Especially in the corner.

Also, I fought a Sakura one time that spammed their jab on me while I was in the corner. Unoiled, I could not get out of it. The only way I was able to escape was to activate U1. If I had U2 in that situation… I have no idea how I would have gotten out of it

795

…did you ever try, you know, blocking?

Really though, I have been forcing myself to use U2 as well. It does seem to shine where I hadn’t expected. It also does give you more to work with, as said. The mixup kinda reverses itself:

For safe j.rh > c.lk for example.

Instead of J.rh > c.lk tick ultra, counter jump w/ f.lp, air throw

It turns into :

J.rh > c.lk tick ex 360, counter jump w/ u2, also some backdashes, and also reversals

So, instead of getting big damage from the tick throw, you get it when they try to escape. since u2 catches reversals and (some) backdashes, it also lets you worry about less. And EX 360 functions similar to the u2, except its frame 3 instead and has no grab immunity. However, you have to spend a bar to use it.

Granted, you could use normal rocket, but against anyone with a 3 frame normal to mash out with, ex would be better.

And I love when people pressure me on the ground. Boy is it fun. Having people scared to jump is the best thing ever.

796

Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about. I was stuck in the corner blocking. Couldn’t get out. Balrog can do the same thing to unoiled Hakan

797

Then you wait in the corner and tech throws and wait for a jump or a fuck up and capitalize… Tat’s what you wouldve done with no u1.

798

I don’t think you know what I’m talking about or experienced it. Luckily I decided to record this match.

[media=youtube]0eW4do1jtdI[/media]

00:57 is one example. Only reason I escaped is because they decided to try a sweep.
1:29 she starts pushing me back with the jabs. Was able to escape because they stopped doing it and I had EX
2:49 is where I escape using ultra

Also, note that wasn’t one of my best matches ever, but I wanted to record the jab abuse

799

Meh, lemme take that back a bit. I’d never actually tried it in situations where I thought it might work, and after some testing just now, it turns out to not work that well. Something option select u2 is fantastic near the corner where it catches all backdashes, but midscreen it won’t catch more backdashes than I expected, and depending on the setup, it won’t even catch some reversals I expected it would (like Honda’s hk buttslam, for example). And everyone can backdash and jump away from slide (block) fadc toward u2. I’m kinda disappointed that u2 doesn’t work better in those situations.

Still maybe good for straight up point blank ex spd/u2 mixups though, I guess. Not so much riskier than u1 mixups, I guess.

800

Watching that made me lol irl. Thanks for that.

Sorry, but that’s easily beatable. While she can pressure you, its not unavoidable. She’s too far to grab, all she can really do is jab. Crouch block. when she gets close prepare to tech. if she gets to far and whiffs, s.mp, back dash > jump back can get your ass out of there.

this is all simple stuff that most characters can do in all honesty. Why you may not see it is because it isn’t by any means the best tactic in the world. You obviously just panicked for about… The whole match and so you got raped by it. Simple enough. Just be patient.