Well this was pretty much my first strong showing. I don’t play very often and rarely go to events, so it’s taking me a long time to get reasonable with him. But yeah, I still get lots of comments about how I’m a masochist for using Hakan etc. I still think he’ll end up a competitive, tournament-viable character.
so weird how that is. Brings to mind a session I had at somebody’s house last Monday. turned into a tournament. Ended up against a Honda player with my Rose, and I picked U1 thinking I could zone Honda, but it’s really not easy to land against a Honda who knows how to play. When I switched to U2 I definitely did better.
Aside from that derail, I’d find it incredibly hard landing U2 as Hakan on Blanka’s horizontal/upward balls. I think it’s kind of redundant to have on hand because Blanka shouldn’t be doing horizontal balls against Hakan anyway, lest he doesn’t grasp the concept of self-preservation.
I haven’t made up my mind about which ultra is better, if there is a better one, but I like U1 in theory. If anything, it gets Blanka much more scared of Hakan up close, meaning his escapes are more susceptible to Hakan’s counters such as DDT, and j.MP juggle.
After all, getting close to Blanka isn’t a problem. Punishing him for using high risk specials isn’t a problem either. If there’s any problem in the match, it’s electricity and footsies. I think footsies are pretty even since both characters can only cancel from a select few, but Hakan’s canceling is more risky unless he can FADNC to hit confirm, or cancel from a counter hit.
However, once Blanka players figure out how to go about Hakan, I think they’ll become more aggressive and not let Hakan oil up if they can stop him.
Shgl messes with Hakan and has played Blanka v Hakan and Hakan v Blanka a bunch of times, so he knows how to play the matchup fairly well. He definitely wanted to be up close pressuring me, and that’s really where he beat me. In our first set, I used u1 and found it very difficult to get him off me and to convince him to sit still on his wakeup. Both things changed when I went to u2.
Imo Blanka is already scared on his wakeup because of Hakan’s regular command grabs. Ex up ball is not an answer because it’s punishable on hit obviously, but if you have u1, Blanka can still wake up with ex rainbow or backdash and not be dissuaded by u1. But if you have u2, all of his escape options are covered, which makes his getup much scarier for him imo. He knows that you could instantly punish any of his attempts to escape, including jumping out, so he has to think more seriously about staying on the ground where you can use your regular and ex command grabs. I would rather make him nervous about escaping than nervous about staying on the ground because I think getting a chance to play grounded games is preferable to playing much riskier jump mp and ddt games.
U2 isn’t necessary to prevent random horizontal and vertical balls while you’re playing normally. Like you say, Hakan can already deal with both. But if Blanka wants to escape the corner while you’re knocked down, u2 means he can’t horizontal ball out over your corpse as easily. If Blanka wants to try a random ex rainbow for crossup tricks or escape, he can’t do so as easily.
Getting close to and punishing Blanka aren’t big issues, but getting tricked by him is. When he’s in, his crossup mk shenanigans and grounded hop side switching are difficult for Hakan to deal with. But if you have u2, those jumps and hops become much less effective for Blanka. Blanka isn’t the kind of character that sits in your face pressing buttons; his offense consists in large part of being airborne. Just by picking u2, you’re shutting down a very big piece of Blanka’s offensive gameplan.
Basically, I think u2 is the better ultra for both offensive and defensive purposes. That’s rare, I usually think u1 is better for both or at least better for offense, but here I like u2.
I’ve had meaty slides beat electricity clean every single time. In fact, the only thing I’ve had beat meaty slide other than super/ultra is EX up-ball
Oh yeah I meant to address that too. Meaty slides definitely beat wakeup electricity.
I suppose this is true enough. If anything, U2 works on Blanka the same as it works on Akuma, Viper and Ibuki. U2 makes them have to play the match more one-dimensionally. Despite U2 possibly being baited out, in terms of defense, it changes the match against Blanka differently than I imagined. I really like Hakan’s U1 setups though. Often works on the entire cast.
Hope this wasn’t posted already. This is regarding Dictator vs. Oiled Hakan:
Any time a Dictator takes flight via Head Press/Devil’s Reverse, I block the headstomp, and if there is none, FA while sliding forward.
If he’s near the corner, doesn’t back up enough, or he hits you, it’s a free crumple.
strange all my meety slide attempts (mp/dash after slide+bb) where punished by electricity clean… i assumed its becouse of his uncommen wakeup speeds …
^ It’s probably because the normal meaty dash-slide setup doesn’t work on Blanka. He gets up too late so it whiffs… and then you get hit by electricity.
s.fierce beats sim’s pokes.
this has made my day
If you like that, try j.LK over fireballs. that is a golden idol.
I asked a friend of mine, BigApple3AM, his opinion on the Hakan vs Chunli matchup (his main is a pretty good Chun). Here is his response that he sent me. Some of it is very basic but I’ll just copy it in its entirety.
BigApple3AM:
HAKAN VS CHUN
Chun is really good against grapplers for a number of reasons. Her fireball, strong normals, and crazy-good air-to-air make it really hard for grapplers to get in. Once they do get in her neutral jump HK and crazy-good backdash mess up throws. N.j. HK hits overhead and hits on both sides of chun, making it impossible to cross-under her when she does it.
Hakan doesn?t have great anti-air options, especially on wake-up and Chun is deadly coming from the air.
You have to learn how to defend certain chun set-ups and here are some tips on how to do so.
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LEARN TO FOCUS ATACK DASH CANCEL ON WAKE-UP AS AN ANTI-AIR. Spend a few matches (against anyone) just doing this over and over again until you get it down. You do this by hitting mp+mk and dashing a split second later on wake-up. It works almost like a parry against the incoming air attack. Dash backwards to absorb the hit right on wake-up and get out of harm?s way. Dash forward to counter a cross-up. You will be immune to a lot of stuff while dashing, your opponent will likely keep inputting whatever combo they started allowing you to counter with a move right as the dash ends.
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FA works great against a lot of Chun?s set-ups. It is really useful against n.j. HK and Hazanshu. You can punish the hell out of hazanshu with a FA. Chun can FADC to safety after a blocked hazanshu, but this eats meter and most chun?s wont do this a lot.
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Learn to deal with Chun?s air target combo (HP->HP). This hits overheard with most follow-ups hitting low. Make sure you don?t block low too early, or the second HP will hit. Chun has a lot of options when she jumps in with this target combo. She can do low HP-HP/low HP-Cancel into a ton of moves. She can do this as a block string too. She recovers quickly after the string (some chun?s will do EX SBK right after the block string which stuff most attempts to punish), but you should have time to 360 Throw after the block string. She can also mix it up and jump, throw, or Hazanshu after the air target combo. She can also do only the first air HP and has a number of options on hit or block. She can even ultra (1 or 2) after the first HP if timed right. FADC works great against the air target combo, standing or wake-up. Explore your options for punishing after your dash. You should have a poke that hits her, and maybe slide. If you are oiled up you might even be able to 360 throw.
A held FA sometimes works against air HP-HP too. From farther away, the second HP won?t hit for some reason, allowing you to FA and nail a chun who is expecting the second hit to stop your FA.
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Full screen? OIL UP. Her fireball can?t go full screen. The fastest she can get in to punish is dash hazanshu, but you should still be good. She can get in FAST from midscreen so don?t do unsafe oils.
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She can stuff oil slide with cr. MP and other stuff. Don?t do predictable slides from far away.
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Chun will punish blocked slides. She has a lot of options. FADC safe slide can bait her out BIG TIME.
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Practice that uncrouchable throw. A lot of chuns will turtle on wake-up. EX SBK will own it though.
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Chun loves to turtle, so FADC moves into U1/360 throw can catch a crouching chun.
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She can bait U2 out with an empty neutral jump. If you see her jumping forward though, go for it. You can also do U2 if you anticipate a hazanshu.
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If you can learn to bait chun into doing sbk, go with U1. If you can bait a wake up EX SBK and jump at the last second, you can land and do ultra.
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MASH OUT 360 throw while she is doing combos. You will grab her in the middle of block string set-up and missed links. She can bait this with a jump though, so be careful.
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Chun has an air throw. A lot of air pokes stuff it easily, but be careful doing hits later in your jump arc, or empty jumping.
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Chun?s neutral jump HK is really good and hits overhead. You can FADC away easily though, and also do a FA to punish, just don?t hold the FA too long because she recovers fast. Her n.j HP is two hits, so holding FA in reaction to a neutral jump can be risky. IF HAKAN AND CHUN LI BOTH NEUTRAL JUMP while close to each other, Hakan?s air throw will beat most of chun?s options, I don?t know who?s air throw will win out though.
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If you get hit by a non-ex SBK, learn what to do right after. Both players return to neutral after the move ends, leading to a mix-up situation for chun. This is a similar situation as when you get hit by Ken?s hurricane kick. Chun can EX SBK right after, stuffing a lot of punish attempts. She can also jump pretty fast, and her low WK can come out really fast too. Neutral jumping or regular jumping might be Hakan?s best option after SBK as he can come down into combo into slide or air throw her if she jumps.
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IF CHUN DOESN?T HAVE METER, ABUSE HER ON WAKE UP. EX SBK is her only great wake-up move. If she is knocked down without meter, walk up to her and do overheads or throw shenanigans (yay for uncrouchable throw) on wake-up. She just doesn?t have the tools to deal with it. Bonus: If you keep knocking her down on wake up while she has no meter, keep an eye on her meter. You can get 1-3 (maybe 4) set-ups against her before she has the meter for EX SBK. If you are playing high-pressure, a lot of chun?s will use that EX SBK at first chance to counter your next overhead/throw set-up. So as soon as you seen her meter build, bait out that EX SBK, block, and punish. This gives you another 1-3 wake-ups to abuse her.
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Crouching weak kick is super fast and deadly. It can be linked into two more low weak kicks/legs/ex legs and from ex legs she can juggle with more ex legs/EX SBK/ and ultra. It?s super free. Just like 3S, you are going to have to learn how to deal with her good footsies. FADC can get you away, but watch out for mashed-out ex legs still hitting you.
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Don?t drop combos or fuck up throws. Chun can mash EX legs while you are attacking. EX legs will get you and she will do ultra.
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Chun has a few normals that are great anti-air. HP, HK, and forward crouching weak kick can all stop cheesy jump-ins. She can ex legs or dash into ultra after the f.cr. weak kick too. EX SBK can also stuff most jump ins.
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If chun walks in close to you on wake-up she is going to A) throw or tic throw with a crouching weak hit. B)cr. Weak kick into whatever C) n. Jump at the last second and come down with a hit or throw on landing D)INSTANT Overhead with jumping HK, either forward or backward E)Hazanshu to punish your throw attempt. Hazanshu is a great punishment for baited throw techs
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Chun is good at baiting 360 throws. She can walk up to you on wake-up and n. jump to punish wake-up throws. If you sense she is going to do this, jump and air throw her.
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Forward cr. HK is move that flips her over an opponent and can cross-up nasty. She has a lot of options even on block because she recovers FAST. You should have time to throw, but watch out for jumps.
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LEARN TO DEAL WITH EX SBK. It is easy to bait out at least once. It can be beat by cross-up. The move has no hit box right in the middle, so you can be safe if you position yourself right in the eye of the storm, meaning right in the middle of the move. This is really tough to plan, but see if you can master getting right into the safe spot.
Don?t bother planning on any ground attacks against her on wake-up when she has meter. Ex SBK will beat them all. YOU CAN walk up and jump at the last second and you WILL land safely right after the move for a free 360 throw punish.
-Advice from a Chun perspective
Some stuff for Cody:
Cody has some nice tricks but you can deal with them easily. Do NOT press buttons vs. Cody. It’s like Balrog, but 10 times worse if you do. He has frame traps up the ass, so it isn’t worth it (especially since one counterhit combo can lead into ultra 2, ex rocks, or something for like 300-400 damage).
Rocks are a pretty bad projectile, just neutral jump from full screen, he can’t punish it, even a rock fake.
LP slide jump ins. Airthow neutral jumps. Standard stuff here.
From slide it’s pretty easy. Use s.mp (or s.mk too, I believe.), jumpin j.mk. Depending on the timing, it’ll either cross up or not. You won’t be able to hit a c.mk from it, but you can do a jab/short combo into uncombo 360k. You can also do some tick throw stuff, obviously. You may want to OS slide to catch EX bingo.
When oiled you have a lot of stuff to use. Parry his jumpins, slide fadnc blockstrings (to be 100% sure its a legit blockstring, do slide fadnc f.mk. Reason being is if you fadnc c.lk, you’ll have to cancel the dash later to make the c.lk’s hit, thus decreasing your frame advantage significantly.). From these blockstrings you can choose to tick throw or dnc some more shit for added pressure. Cody doesn’t have a real 100% answer for this (he could ex bingo, but thats only if you do a blockstring incorrectly and he has some hella nice timing).
Your ex rocket also helps a lot during Cody’s attempted frame traps, but don’t get too reliant on that. Blocking is still the best answer.
If he starts trying to play footsies with your ass, you can do a few things…
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Back the hell up and oil. At worst you’ll eat a rock, if that.
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When oiled, and he starts poking with the normal Cody stuff (being, s.rh, s.mk) you have a few options…
–While your focusing, Cody’s s.rh goes over Hakan completely. The punish should be obvious.
–For s.mk, you could time it so you absorb the s.mk, and hit with focus1 > dnc f.mp xx slide. However, you could also just do fadnc f.mp.
– FADNC is also effective against Cody’s c.mp, s.fp, c.fp, c.mk, etc. Basically, parry everything. He doesn’t have a good armor breaker at this distance.
You have a pretty lulzy “frame trap” that works decent on Cody. Oiled f.lk over and over.
etc
omg abel’s TT stops U1. I’m so mad.
Did you guys check out the iplaywinner tier chart?
The old one was ok (imo), but this new one is surprising to say the least. Apparently Rog/Sim are both Hakan’s worst match-ups now, whereas before, it was Honda/Abel/Dictator.
The fact that Sakura is the worst and Guile is the best makes me laugh, seems like the tier lists get more ridiculous with each iteration 
Just like last time, I would still like to know who the fuck is giving them the info for Hakan’s matchups because every time a list pop ups I see some of the most retarded numbers for him that I seriously want to rip my hair off.
Vangief, John Choi, Filipino Champ. That’s mostly who I know compiles THAT specific tier list.
Yeah. Tornado Throw beats pretty much all throws, since it’s got throw invuln. I’ve been on the receiving end of a few TTs after an U1, let me tell you.
ahem On a different note though, I really need to update the front page…but I can’t. It won’t fit anymore text. My gut tells me to make a new thread. But, this thread has too much great info to just let slip away. So, I ask thee, Hakan faithful: should I make a new thread, or just add more information posts(like the first post) to the very last page and update the thread title indicating such? I could also edit character blurbs with links to particular posts that detail a lot about a certain matchup, saving text space.
Well first, I think we could have two stickied match-up threads. The Rose forum has two afterall, though one dates back to the days of vanilla, while still somewhat active (minus the first post never being updated despite whatever promise made…), so I can’t see why Hakan can’t also. He’s bigger after all, and he has a lot of daughters.
Secondly, maybe the newER match-up thread could either address tier standings, and why a match does or doesn’t favor Hakan, taking into account any pros and cons… or the thread could be more about specific counters instead of a walkthrough for how to play the match.
Not saying I’ve read anything like a walkthrough, but I think good match-up information should be more centered on specific scenarios. Like for example: What an Abel player might do if his step kick is blocked, while Hakan is oiled. Blocked Step kick leaves Abel at +0 frames, and his quickest go-to moves (TT, c.Jab, c.LK) all have 5 starting frames, while Hakan’s Rocket has 3, meaning you’ve got the edge in mind games.
Another specific scenario it might be good to address, is how to play a match once you get U2 against characters like Adon, Blanka, and Honda etc. Assuming they’re smart and acknowledge you have U2, what’s the most likely attack method they’ll use while staying safe from it? And what their ultra is and how it limits Hakan’s options?
Stuff like that. Personally, it doesn’t matter much to me either way how you go about the new information, but I think it’d be best and cleanest to make a new thread, instead of adding on new information to the end of this thread, which would eventually become another page in the book, that a person would have to flip around to find. :china: