divekicks are to faast to react of cours it was a prediction
Before you posted this I have already tested it and also have been able to apply it in a match. It works only if the Rufus spams the dive kick, so if he goes dive kick -> lk, lk… you will get hit. You have to predict he will do a dive kick so you do a reversal LK-DDT (MK and HK are too slow for this)… if you predicted correctly you will grab him…
When playing footsies, against most character’s longest pokes, (this is max range speaking), c.mk buffered slide will not connect; the slide will be blocked. It’s safer, when at max range to do c.mk with a buffered lk oil. Since it’s so far away, and the hit stun from the c.mk helps, the oil is nigh unpunishable save for very few moves.
i found out that Focus-BDNC standing MP is one of Hakans best ANTIAIRS since the Invincibility of the backdash it counts often as counterhit and you can combo out of it into c.mk slide
Guys, I’ve got Atlanta Revival on Saturday and theres two main people I’m worried about.
JTO, uses Balrog. I have more confidence in that one.
Ssjbush, uses Zangief, apparently one of the best in the US (according to my friend).
That being said I need EVERYTHING you people have for Gief. I rarely ever play one and don’t take it seriously when I do. The only thing I have so far is that I should lk oil after slide+press and bdnc s.fp or c.mk. Avoids 360 reversal and lariat.
Other than that, I was thinking of a turtle strategy. HP Slide under all of his jump ins and just stay the fuck away. But I do not think that’d work against him.
If I were to go for the turtle strategy I’d probably use U1. But again I dunno.
I do know he’s slide bait since they like to walk a lot. I should also use a lot of ddt setups, I think. Like slide (hit) fadc, s.rh lk dive. Something like that.
I would think my main prerogative is to keep oiled in this particular matchup, so I’ll forgo any safe slide bs or anything. I do think however BDNC is necessary in this mu, as essentially having invincible normals is the best thing I could have.
someone with experience in this mu halp meh
I don’t have an amazing amount of match up experience against Gief, but I do have a few suggestions that might help.
The oil > bdnc stuff on wake up is pretty solid, as it beats pretty much every reversal he has, but you definitely need to practice it and be super careful. If you’re off by one frame, you’re eating a SPD/super/ultra. BDNC is great on his wake up, just be careful.
Also, I would usually go U2 against gief. Reason is, you really don’t want to be playing around at the range U1 connects with the big russian. U2 ultimately just serves your defense better in this match up, as it completely shuts down zangief jumping in on you on wake up and in general. Nullifying that option is pretty useful against gief.
Like you said, DDT set ups. They’re pretty useful in this match up as zangief can’t reversal a properly timed one. He either has to mash the hell out of crouching normal or backdash. Both of which are punishable if he catches on. But still be wary, dive is super punishable. My main one I use against gief is after slide follow up, backdash, hold HK DDT slightly and let go. You need to know the timing but it works pretty well.
Zangief you definitely need to play different than most other match ups. For the most part, throw out j.HK and safe slide stuff because it just doesn’t threaten zangief nearly as much. Just stay back and stay patient.
F+MP beats almost all his Jumpin atacks and works here as a good Antiair!
dont use LK-OIL after BB against gief his 360 is the only one that hase a chanze to punish it (if you misstime one or two frames its -2!!)
Fake Crossup with HK works well and even hit lariat clean or at least trade in hakans favor when well executet!
Althou give use his pressing knees for a setup either tickthrow (most propply) or Lariat combooing out of it is realy hard and not easy so be aware
greenhands are punishable ON HIT AND BLOCK and what gives kneepress is hakans lk (it althou leeds to great tickthrows)
U2 is nice against crossup heavy giefs thats true.
its a matchup almost 100% footsy based if you play it right hakan has the better tools i would not depend on oil in this matchup hakans piledriver is less superior than giefs and his f+hk is punishable except it was on a good range so only oiled EX DDT is usefull somewhat since it beats giefs wakeup Piledriver+ Jumpaway
try to learn to punish every lariat with Hk-DDT
On a side note, can someone get the frames we have on some of our untechable knockdowns?
And yeah, there is little room for error for the lk oil, but i think it’d worth it if you can get it.
Would the anti air f.mp cancel into an uncrouchable ddt?
EDIT: Anti air MP vs Gief can lead into uncrouchable MK DDT, but don’t cancel the f.mp. Do it after f.mp finishes.
Like what was said, meaty dive can wreak havoc on gief. Online Giefs you can just dive loop all day (dive, dash, jump toward, LK-dive). If they don’t know how to get out (most don’t) it’s free damage.
Even if they DO know how to get out, once you land a dive, you can dash and then jump over for the loop, and then it’s mini-game time. He will HAVE to do either crouching attack or backdash to get out, so you get to try hitting one of those options… If you can predict correctly, you can keep him in the loop. It’s just a guessing game, but it’s something.
I dunno wtf to do though once he gets in. I suppose U2 would be good here to at least stop his crossup shenanigans, but still… Blocking a jump-in from Gief is hella scary.
What knockdown frames are you looking for?
The knockdown frames for slide+press, hp rocket, mp rocket, lp rocket, dives, EX dives, f.rh, and throws. If you can get those, I’d probably get a whole lotta stuff done as far as more ddt setups and stuff. If you could tell me how, that’d be just as good (I don’t have one of those frame camera things though).
Oh, sorry man, I don’t think I’ll be able to do that.
I’ve been doing some labwork of my own though, and I can tell you that nothing is universal. How long they stay down after the rockets is character dependant, same with the sweeps. Rocket sends different characters further away than others. Then you got weird stuff like certain characters can keep the stick at neutral to avoid your meaty dive.
Here’s a tidbit I found recently, not gief related though 
VS Fuerte: [Oiled HP/EX-Rocket, dash, jump towards] is a safe jump. You need to be oily during the dash.
actualy it would be quite easy there is not so much diffrence at all there are REGULAR standing up motions (Ryu ; Ken; Guy; Balrog; Cody; Guile; …) then there are the faster ones (chun-li; …) and the slower ones (Honda; Blanka; Dalsim; Hakan) there are 3 groups but nobody did actualy take his time for finding out which one belong to which group… maybe its time for this…
becouse the only save slide setup i know so faar is after a slide+BB… with MP/Dash…
Yeah, that’s what I was referencing, Reaper. Like, the people who can get hit by the same ddt setups for example; how many frames are they down, etc. It’d just help by being able to accurately calculate what could set up DDTs, find out what version of oil is safe, meaty/fake out slides, etc.
FOR EXAMPLE (yeah a second post cause i roll that way)
For Gief.
This DDT setup works:
After slide+press: c.fp, lk ddt. So going from this (assuming the forced stand is 1 frame long):
So, c.fp frames are 14 (startup) 2 (active) and 21 (recovery). So, 37 frames are used in that move. Then LK DDT comes out frame 14, and has 4 active frames, so its around 4 frame leeway (14/18)
37 + 14/18 = 51/55.
However if this is true, LK oil shower (53 frames) is either safe or not. Since I have tested it many many times, I found it is safe but the timing is tight. This means that the LK Dive catches Gief around the 54-55 frame, correct? (Since unless I’m mistaken the stand frame is replaced when you do a reversal).
So this means Gief is knocked down for thereabouts 54-55 frames.
^^^^^^ Theres some of my ghetto math. Can someone check?
Also, for lk DDT (not sure if theres a difference in knockdown between strengths)
Just add 20 frames. Because, from what I just tested, its lk ddt , dash forward (20 frames), c.fp, lk DDT. So thats 74-75 frames for knockdown on DDTs. Which means MK oil MIGHT be safe… If it is, its one frame to get the fuck out of there. MK oil is 74 frames.
Not sure about that last part of your statement unless you’re refering to FA attempts and/or specific moves with super armor properties like Rogs’s EX dash punches. Would probably come in handy against Gief’s EX RBG but I haven’t fully tested it yet. Hakan already has the edge against Gief on the ground so an overhead isn’t really a priority IMO.
Are you talking about post knockdown after the slide or just in general because either way oiling up is key in this matchup. And even without oil Hakan has plenty of opportunities to land post meaty slide and dash in EX OR’s against both Gief and T. Hawk especially when they don’t have meter.
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@Liquigen: Good stuff. Just when you think you know almost everything there is to know about Hakan’s game something else comes along to make you realize how truly complex he really is.
Yes, on some further investigation though, it seems that dash c.fp doesn’t work, and it was just my own mistimings… Although the dash > jump forward does work swimmingly. So that means
Dash (20) + F jump (45) +lk DDT (14-18) = 79-83. So, MK oil, does seem to be in fact, safe.
Also, I think I’m going to do this for every character. So keep posted.
Yet again another post because its marginally different than my other one:
OS vs. Rufus.
Slide+press > cross up j.rh, os U2, c.mk xx slide. Catches back dash, and ex messiah.
You can’t OS with a normal jump in version for some reason, however, so you have to just block the ex messiah (if there is one)
bro, you should be concerned with everyone…tons of upsets at the last one…
ill be running Hakan as well…we need to hit some casuals before the tournament
I agree, but I’m concerned with those two cuz they’re the only ones I know. rofl
And agreed. I shall have a bottle of virgin olive oil with me.
I doubt you will get pared with them in the first round…there was some nice variety last time…different characters so that means adapting to different situations…I have always choosen U1 Hakan…on u2 players will generally know not to jump or attempt cross-ups so they will fight you ground based or bait you into using it…they also know that you need oil to be considered a threat…
there werent many hakan’s at the last one so the match-ups may be in your favor…