Yea it’s similar to piccolos super if you wake up reflect it. Though you do have the option to reflect into super dash which can screw with offensive characters timing.
Even then you should be able to stand at a distance where super dash is reactable with a button or c.H. During an assist its obvious that’s going to be their go to thing to do and being locked down by the assist completely telegraphs the super dash.
Just won’t get as strong of a mix up, which I think was actually a good nerf for the move
If you’re not in range for a cross up iad M then it’s easier to react to the mix up most of the time
Indeed. Bad options or not, introducing counterplay can have dire consequences for both parties in the heat of the moment. EVOs have been decided by contenders taking a bad option and succeeding with it.
Makes sense, but super dash is like 20 F start up so I still think its more the issues of the person trying to reflect the assist. You’ll have things to do, but I don’t think any of them will be good or favorable long term.
Bad option is still bad option. Cyclops or Level 1 Frank can win you a game every once in a blue moon, but it’s still a bad thing to deal with and not optimal for you.
Bad options > no options
Unfortunately, not by much.
I disagree: adding in the human element means a lot. Giving the opponent something they have to think about can be enough for them to think about and second guess them. Or injects execution/reaction/prediction, all elements that can be messed up by even the most veteran players
Yeah I was playing ring matches for a while last night and losing a lot lol, were you one of the 600k+ ranked players I played?
I’m only at 470k and I now know why lol.
I’m just explaining as far as tiers and meta goes, nothing changed for Vegeta that will keep him from being the best neutral assist and you will still have to hold shit for the most part from ground or air. A.Gohan, Vegeta himself and maybe Beerus probably the only characters who could begin to do anything really good with reflecting it and you can’t reflect from the air.
There’s a human element to Dan, but he’s still Dan and he sucks. Still a human element to just frame blocking out of old SFIV unblockable set ups, but it still sucks for you and they patched it out later.
Couldn’t you still Super Dash though? Like block it and then dash?
Yeah we were talking about that earlier. Basically super dash normally is really strong and unga and all of that, but when you’re blocking/reflecting the 20 F start up of super dash becomes an issue because you’re forced to do it right next to the opponent where they can actually react and stuff it with a button.
Yeah I was the Cell/Broly/Black player. I was getting my ass handed to me by that Vegerot dude though lol
I’m trying to remember, but am at work and can’t just check for myself- can you call your own assist while you reflect, or are you still locked out like you are when you are in true blockstun?
Actually, that was a mechanics question rather than a strategy question, but good to know regardless.
In any case, you don’t think it’ll hit him that hard and I do. I’m gonna leave it there just so we don’t clog the thread more than we already have
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Only if the reflect whiffs or you stop reflecting. Once you go into chain reflecting (like vs vegeta assist) you can’t call anything until you stop reflecting.
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I think it affects him a little more than what dj thinks and less than what cg thinks lol.
Basically just don’t get a really strong free mix up any more but the person on offense still has a huge advantage in the blocking situation.
Yeah and at minimum still no other assist forces that and still no other assist covers the speed, angle and active frames of Vegeta. Plus can still dual call with another lockdown like Kid Buu if both are available. If you start reflecting eventually you’re going to have to choose between whiffing a reflect which will get punished or pressing a button after the reflect which can get counter hit. Both generally not good. You have a “way” out but you’re still effectively in a trap.
Or you could not randomly mash reflect afterwards and react. People have stopped using piccolo because his hellzone grenade oki doesn’t work against good players. Vegeta assist now functions the same way except it’s far worse; you can start reflecting anytime even if you block the initial hit, and your opponent also has the ability to superdash at any time. Given that nearly all other assists can directly open up (or extend) pressure and mixups while vegetas can’t, I don’t think it will be strong at all.
Unless you need vegeta assist for specific combos, I think switching to trunks or beams will be a direct upgrade. Selling point for vegeta will become having the best DP in a game with shit defensive options.
Vegeta assist shines as a neutral/defensive assist imo and obviously the combo extensions help. The lockdown it gave you just made it OD lol. I still don t think any assist would be an upgrade, do to how the meta works.