81

Depends on who you ask. The default answer you could expect from transsexuals themselves would be “chasers” (typically used as a derogatory term). In my experience, the vast majority of transsexuals stick to queer circles and date and engage in sexual expression with each other. It’s the only place that many of us feel that we can feel safe being ourselves without judgment. Personally, I try to be more open, but it’s a very rare occasion that I am sexually attracted to a cisgendered man much less feel safe around one. That said, I have discovered that I have a very different sexuality than most people.
[INDENT=1] [/INDENT]

It’s very fair to say that I sound dickish. I have spent years among the company of academics and activists with varying fields of study and interest The commonality that has rubbed off on me is a sort of cold and clinical textual communication style which focuses on facts and truth (often with sources). It’s understood and assumed within these circles that no ill-intent is present. No one’s trying to snipe anyone, the goal is merely to discover answers to the best of our collective ability. The most confusing circle that I’ve spent time around I can only describe as the “trans-feminist activist” circle. They’ve developed a sort of “call-out” culture that, from an outside view, seems like everyone hates everyone else and no one can possibly get along. They actually seem to get along, they just have goals that they work together for and it can get really harsh.

As far as I know, AIS is AIS. If there has been a medical discovery linking it with intersex in a manner that they should be moreso related, it would be news to me.

I feel I was unclear here. I did not mean “a performing gender”, I meant that they are “performing gender as an action.” The time and effort it takes to do drag… I haven’t come across many who make a daily habit of it. It’s a performance. An exaggeration. A farcical enactment of typical binary gender. Typically done on stage or at clubs and bars. In a way, locally anyway, it’s merely performance art in motion to induce humor at the absurdity of gender presentations and expectations taken to extremes.

No. No one has to be anything. Crossdressers, transvestites, transsexuals, people who perform drag come in all shapes and sizes and have different understandings of themselves that may or may not be static or fluctuating as they evolve through their experience.

There is no way to determine this because each individual’s experience is their own. You’d have to ask each person of interest individually.

An amalgamation would fall more under “genderqueer” (generally). In situations like these, a person’s self-perception can conflict with the perception of others perceiving them. You have to decide which is more important to you in any given context. Your perception of them or their perception of themselves.

A fair one to have, imho. I have not personally talked with anyone who I could readily identify that would qualify for this set of specifications. If you do come across one, I would encourage humbly asking them if they will help you to understand who they are.

To close out this post, I will say that I have responded the way I have because your original post sets forth a presentation of authority by dictating terminology (“dictating” used in a neutral way, not a negative way) with little to no allowance that you are new to this and are still learning (which there is nothing wrong with that, we all have to start somewhere).

Personally, I found it humorous and odd that after being gone from this forum for something like 3 years, the day after I return, a thread is started focused on gender. I was very outspoken and quick to temper years ago in this very forum when I began my own explorations so I have to admit to a sort of incredulous laughter on my part that I’ve practically returned to be presented with the same situation.

These past few years have been quite an adventure for me and I don’t think I’ve ever been particularly good at fitting in to the way people communicate on srk. I just miss playing fighting games and am wanting to pick them back up and thought I might check back in here to see how this community has (or hasn’t) changed.

82

Am I the only one who thinks all these labels are a fucking waste of time? You like what you like and love who you love. That should be the bottom line but no, we end up doing nothing more than bickering and nagging each other with no chance of “victory” for any ones views.
“You’re wrong and this is why”
"No, YOU’RE wrong and THIS is why"
blah blah blah.

83

I agree that labels are undesirable in an ideal world in which humanity is able to communicate empathically. Unfortunately, we don’t live there and have to rely upon a very limited medium of communication (words) in order to attempt to communicate complex ideas.

However, in some situations, I have enjoyed being able to communicate with my significant others without having to say a word.

84

If you could take a month per person just to analyze what is their gender and their secual orientation we wouldn’t need labels of any sort.
Not ideal the World.
I think this is an interesting discussion.

85

From my view point people assign labels to protect themselves. Regardless if the fears they have are valid or not. Like I remember asking my girl if she would ever go out with some bi-dude and she was like hell naw, since she didn’t want to mess with a guy that was also having sex with men and potentially in her eyes contracting her with some disease.

Of course that may be valid lol.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/index.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/inc/content/chart.htm?http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/images/large_msm_chart.jpg

86

You came into this thread, brought up feminism, and then started name calling.

I came into this thread and contributed to the topic. How am I the troll here?

I think it’s pretty obvious that you greatly dislike me, but that doesn’t give you the right to follow me into every thread I post in and try to start some kind of debate or argument about another topic. Honestly, it’s a little creepy too. Even before I came into the thread people were talking about me derailing it…I’m starting to think you guys want me to.

So if you can’t chill because of my words please chill so others can enjoy the thread. Havatchu made an interesting thread and people are having some nice intellectual exchanges. Please don’t ruin that because you have hangups with me.

87

[S]Inb4itgetsclosedfromit’sfaggotry[/S]

88

…what the fuck is going on in here? o_0

89

[quote=Korbidon, post: 7095481, member: 20495

[details=Spoiler]
…what the fuck is going on in here? o_0
[/quote]
]

The attainment of knowledge.

At least on my end.[/details]

[quote=SaikyoStyle, post: 7095187, member: 68680

[details=Spoiler]
Am I the only one who thinks all these labels are a fucking waste of time? You like what you like and love who you love. That should be the bottom line but no, we end up doing nothing more than bickering and nagging each other with no chance of “victory” for any ones views.
“You’re wrong and this is why”
"No, YOU’RE wrong and THIS is why"
blah blah blah.
[/quote]
]

As I told Matriarch before, most people (including myself) can’t help but have convenient phrases and terms at hand.[/details]

[quote=angelpalm, post: 7095430, member: 907

[details=Spoiler]
From my view point people assign labels to protect themselves. Regardless if the fears they have are valid or not
[/quote]

Agreed, it gives a sort of authority, even if tentative, to the person being asked what they are. Also you’re image didn’t work.[/details]

[quote=JustB, post: 7095110, member: 7633

[details=Spoiler]
Depends on who you ask. The default answer you could expect from transsexuals themselves would be “chasers” (typically used as a derogatory term). In my experience, the vast majority of transsexuals stick to queer circles and date and engage in sexual expression with each other. It’s the only place that many of us feel that we can feel safe being ourselves without judgment.
[/quote]

Cool, makes sense.
[INDENT=1] [/INDENT]

This is basically what I thought as well, but couldn’t say without feeling like I was stepping on any toes. I already felt I was a little harsh in my first assessment of dragqueens/dragkings in my original post.

Thought so, I was just making sure.

This rang out to me more than anything else in your post I think, it reminded me of polysexuality and people having their own set of limitations.

Even more so here, with my last sentence, I mean.

Can you offer some better terms for me to use? Or is it mostly that I thought that transgenders belonged in the middle of the binary gender system that got on your nerves the most? I really would like to be able to be more accurate when talking to other people about this, so I’m not married to the “Male-Androgyne-Androgen-Female” model.

Would it be totallly outlandish to say that there could be rather, another model system specifically for transgendered or genderqueer people? You did say they operate outside the binary gender system, but for the sake of simplicity it would be nice for there to be a similar sort of tool for it.

I’m not sure if this suggestion is going to make you feel alienated or not, it’s not that I want to converge the binary gender system with transgender and genderqueer people, both of which I consider sovereign in their personal territory, I’m not in anyway trying to dumb down what people are.

It’s that I want to be easily able to explain to people that have thought little of these topics in correlation to a system that everyone already knows about, which would hopefully make it easier for people to understand and in return hopefully respect people they previously “didn’t quite get” before.

This is really the meat of my questions I’ve been posing to you.

I kind of feel like opening another can of worms, like how I think polysexual is in the middle of bisexual and pansexual, but we’ll get to it another time, I just wanted to put in here in case I can compare that node with either the gender binary system or perhaps something of your or someone else’s suggestion.[/details]

I really do enjoy this thread.

Sorry if my quoting style is messy, but I needed to start using spoiler tags since I’m addressing multiple people at once, now.

90

All this makes me miss the wholesome morality premium thread where honest and intelligent discussions of human sexuality occurred. Unfortunately, I don’t think it could sustain in GD as it exists today.

91

I miss that thread so much :frowning:

92

It would be awesome if someone could find archived links of that.

93

It was in premium, so I don’t know how that works. I am very tempted to create a new one, however, I would probably talk to Valaris first about it. He was a major contributer to the premium thread, and I would like to ensure that the thread was somewhat monitored to prevent it from becoming a “must-close” thread. I feel it would be a great place for discussion, but rules would have to be enforced as I do NOT want it to become a troll breeeding ground or a place of judgement.

94

In all honesty, I would be incredibly irked if there were premium only threads.

Unless I’m reading something incorrectly.

95

There is (was?) a whole section just for premiums. That’s where the thread was. however, I haven’t been a premium emmber since like 2009 or something…so I don’t know if it still exists.

96

It’s still there, but Premium sucks and nobody buys it anymore so it doesn’t even reallly exist.

I say yes to asking Valaris about making a new WM thread for GD! <3

97

I feel dumb, what is WM?

Anyway, here is a video by BrinConvenient, a youtube channel I find insightful.

[media=youtube]gB73WyZnt4U[/media]

Reminds me of a female Maxamillian LOL

It’s become apparent to me that my infatuation with tom boys in my teenage years has also developed into an appreciation for** gender blenders**, moreso than gender benders.

Gender variance appears to be any sort of behavior that is contrary to the binary gender system, but is socially acceptable, such as being a tom boy.

More on Gender performance. ^

" The socially constructed aspect of gender performativity is perhaps most obvious indragperformance, which offers the potential for a revision of gender categories in its emphasis on the discursive contingency of each gender performance. Butler believes that drag cannot be regarded as an instance of free play, where “there is a ‘one’ who is prior to gender, a one who goes to the wardrobe of gender decides with deliberation which gender it will be today”.[2]Subsequently, drag should not be considered the honest expression of its performer’s intent. Rather, she suggests that what is performed “can only be understood through reference to what is barred from the signifier within the domain of corporeal legibility”.[3]
Butler suggests in both “Critically Queer” and “Melancholy Gender”[SIZE=11px][4], that the child/subject’s ability to grieve the loss of the same-sex parent as a viable love object is barred. Following from Freud’s notion of melancholia, such a repudiation results in a heightened identification with the Other that cannot be loved, resulting in gender performances which allegorize and internalize the lost love that the subject is subsequently unable to acknowledge or grieve. Butler explains that “a masculine gender is formed from the refusal to grieve the masculine as a possibility of love; a feminine gender is formed (taken on, assumed) through the incorporative fantasy by which the feminine is excluded as a possible object of love, an exclusion never grieved, but ‘preserved’ through the heightening of feminine identification itself”. [5] Curiously, Butler does not appear to problematize Freud’sheteronormative assumption that the child necessarily has two parents and/or both a mother and a father.[/SIZE]

Interesting, it claims that if a parent dies of the opposite sex that the child is more likely to mimic that parents sex/gender in order to feel the love it feels it has lost.

I must admit that I have no idea what this means down here.

"Butler suggests that “[t]he critical promise of drag does not have to do with the proliferation of genders…but rather with the exposure of the failure of heterosexual regimes ever fully to legislate or contain their own ideals”, though such remarks fail to indicate how the inadequacies of heterosexual regimes might be explicitly exposed. [SIZE=11px][6] Much of the discussion surrounds Butler’s inability to differentiate clearly between notions of performativity andperformance even when pressed to define a clear division. Generally, it is considered that the performativity describes the process of discursive production and performance as a specific type of self-presentation.[/SIZE]
According to Butler, gender performance is only subversive because it is “the kind of effect that resists calculation”, which is to say that signification is multiplicitous, that the subject is unable to control it, and so subversion is always occurring and always unpredictable”. [7] Moya Lloyd suggests that the political potential of gender performances can be evaluated relative to similar past acts in similar contexts in order to assess their transgressive potential: “Even if we accept that there are incalculable effects to all (or most) statements or activities, this does not mean that we need to concede that there are no calculable effects”. [8] Conversely, Rosalyn Diprose lends a hard-line Foucauldian interpretation to her understanding of gender performance’s political reach, as one’s identity “is built on the invasion of the self by the gestures of others, who, by referring to other others, are already social beings”. [9] Diprose implies that the individual’s will, and the individual performance, always be subject to the dominant discourse of an Other(s), so as to restrict the transgressive potential of performance to the inscription of simply another dominant discourse."

98

(W)holesome (M)orality - it’s what we called the sex thread in premium.

99

Just realized what a pun that title is. ^

100

is this gay?
i would much rather have sex with this than a zangief looking muthaa fuckaa with a vagina