“They’re Grrrrrrrrrrrreat!!!”
So…somebody tries to get a discussion going on the subject and the best you can do is be a bitch about it? Of course the dude is doing it poorly; because he is trying to learn. Hetero-normative group of people? Wouldn’t be easier to call us a bunch of assholes; I mean you’re already being a cunt about this.
But seriously, fall back on this because all you can possibly bring into this is some hormonal rage from where your balls used to be. Your attitude is counterproductive towards the goal of the thread.
Because you know, you are sooooo much smarter than the rest of us. It can’t possibly happen that there are plenty of other people in this site that deal with cultural issues. Nope, none at all.
I once wrote a paper about the injustice Gender Based Ethics and I found the topic really interesting. Basically speaking, Gender Based Ethics is any ethical logic that attempts to make an action’s rightness or wrongness contingent on the gender of a subject.
So if we were to ask the question “Is it ok to do X?”, the follow up to that would be “Depends on whether the one doing X is male or female”. So it ends up being something like:
If Female, X is right.
If Male, X is wrong.
-or-
If Female, X is wrong.
If Male, X is right.
And it really is amazing how much the ethics of various societies and cultures around the world create situations like this. However, this is inherently flawed because it assumes that gender is a polarity (male/female) when it’s actually a gradient. So how would you define someone who sits in the middle of that gradient? How would they determine what is right or wrong for them? Simple things that most of us take for granted can become very confusing because we look to our society’s gender role to tell us what to do. It’s no wonder people with gender disorders tend have incredibly high accounts of depression and suicide.
It also becomes a problem of definition. How exactly do you define male and female? It seems pretty straight forward, but in many cases it’s not. In virtually all human societies, we can’t know what is right or wrong for us if we don’t know whether we’re male or female.
Is it the ability to reproduce as a male/female?
This is the most basic scientific definition of male or female and is really about physical sex, but it has problems. First of all, some people are naturally born without the ability to ever reproduce in their life. Does that mean they are not male or female? What about people who are injured or undergo surgery to remove their ability to reproduce? Do they lose their ‘maleness’ or ‘femaleness’?
Is it the shape of your body?
When does a big clit become a penis? When does a tiny penis become a clit? What about people who have mixed traits? This definition has issues with hermaphrodites but also people who undergo surgery as well. If you give a man breast implants does he lose ‘maleness’? If a woman loses her breasts from cancer does she lose ‘femaleness’? Does a large penis really make a guy ‘more male’ than another?
Believe it or not but the shape of your body also extends inside your skull. There are ‘masculine’ and ‘feminine’ brains in terms of the way they are structured. They are called this because guys have a tendency to have a certain brain structure and girls have a tendency to have another. But it’s not perfect. A lot of guys have more feminine brains than girls and vice versa. Interestingly, gay males have a much higher likelihood to have brains with a feminine structure than straight males, and lesbians have a higher likelihood of having a brain with a more masculine structure. Essentially, masculine and feminine brains differ in how they process information.
This gets into the Mind/Body problem. What defines our identity? Is it our mind, body, or a combination of both? To think of it in another way, does the structure of the brain determine whether you’re considered male or female? This means you might have someone who has the outward appearance of one gender, but the brain structure of another. So which takes precedence?
Is it your genes?
This has been talked about earlier in the thread, but just because you have the body of a guy it doesn’t mean your genes are that way. It’s a possibility some of you reading this thread right now actually have the genes and should have been born the opposite gender. I actually personally know a guy who was born ‘male’ but has two X chromosomes and has quite a few feminine traits. Yet, he was conceived female but received the wrong hormones as he developed. Is he male or female?
So if it’s not our ability to reproduce, the shape of our body, or our genes, what is it that makes us male or female? Should we even be trying to divide people into a polarity to begin with? What use does it really serve? Does it do more harm than good?
Sorry if this post was long winded, but I’d really like to hear what some of you think about some of these things. It’s a topic I’ve written about a lot in the past so I had a lot to share.
I’m not bitching about it.
I was asked to educate.
I educated.
Then I get called out for it.
Stay classy.
Again, I appreciate what is trying to be done. Just saying if it’s going to be done, I encourage it to be done with accurate information and statements to reduce confusion and misnomers. If further input wasn’t desired, it shouldn’t have been asked for. If no one else wants to read what I post, they don’t have to.
ARGH Baily Jay. That face and those lips…would be a strong trap if not for the horrible case of “noassatall”(OLD SCHOOL). No homo.
Pretty much. People are people. Love and allow yourself to be loved. The rest doesn’t matter nearly as much imho.
And the initial post. If you’re gonna have a shitty attitude about, we can most definitely do with you. Stay a combative, unhelpful and illiterate tart.
Please re-read everything I’ve posted without tonal influence. I’m not being combative or having a shitty attitude. I’m making statements without emotional context or investment.
I just came in to say holy shit, it’s JustB!
LOL
Holy shit, it’s AL! Someone I remember!
Absolutely agreed, so let’s start by having women sign up for selective service, make there be ONE standard in all fields of endeavor, and no more special protections/privileges for women, not shit like maternity leave, affirmative action, VAWA, or any other shit crapped out by Chivalrist White Knights and Feminist Blowhards like you who pretends that sex differences don’t exist
Agreed. There are plenty of women in the service, there’s absolutely no reason why women shouldn’t have to do this too.
Agreed. If you’re the best person for the job, you should get the job. No racism, no sexism, etc.
Sure, when everyone else gives up their special protections/privileges.
I do have issue with this. Not so much for the rights of the woman, but for the health and well being of the unborn child.
I hate affirmative action. It’s discrimination. It’s a hypocritical solution that becomes what it seeks to end.
I honestly don’t see why any group would need a law like this. Violence against anyone is wrong. The only thing the law does of value is better specify how a domestic situation should be handled when children are involved, but that could easily be covered in a law expressly for that.
Stay free to ad homenims. That’s gotta be a bad match up for you.
Everyone has differences. Nature made us that way. The point is that everyone should have equal opportunity. Their own individualized ability and motivation is what should determine how well they’re able to act upon said opportunities. So if someone is smarter than you, you might have to study harder than them to get an A, but that doesn’t mean we should make things simpler so you get an A too.
Fuck you you feminist piece of shit.
No innate differences between sexes right?(your whole little speech about polarities) no fucking reason a woman should get maternity leave.(If it’s for the “good of the child”, why is there not an equivalent paternal leave? In this age where both parents are usually working, and there being many stay at home dads, there is NO reason for any special female privilege.)
edit: Do tell me what privileges are accorded to men? The privilege of selective service? The privilege of affirmative action(newsflash, Affirmative Action benefits white women more than it does anyone else, I’m all for getting rid of it and any special interest group considerations), or is it the privilege of being hyped up on ritalin and turned into a brain dead zombie due to adhd/“oppositional defiant disorder” which almost always translates to “raised by a single mom without any positive male figures around”?
edit2: Absolutely agreed on not lowering standards, the military is notorious for this, lowering standards so more women can enjoy careers in the military, isn’t this sexism according to you? Same standards as men(instead of lowering men’s standards to accommodate women) or no go. And that counts for every field of endeavor. Let’s also start heavily recruiting women for the jobs with the highest workplace deaths, those tend to be unfairly dominated by privileged males, so it’s about time we set the record straight.
Oh, and if you’re going to trump out the pay disparity canard
go pork yourself
Just popping in to say that everyone should love everyone, OP and JustB are both trying to do good things.
Oh yeah, panties feel good.
Edit: With how much BEWD likes dick you’d think he were gay.
Who here can say with a straight face they didn’t expect this thread to devolve into another matriarch feminist argument?
Hey I wanna do good too. What about the asexual? If you dont have a real or sexual attraction to any gender of person and even find the romantic rituals such as kissing strange or find people who show romantic or sexual interest in you as form of invasion of your person like they have bad intentions you should out yourself as an asexual to save yourself the struggle of trying to conform to being with someone you cant see as more than friend. Its the orientation that gets no attention because its so rare and the people who are in it aren’t really aware of it themselves till they come to a point where they think something is wrong with themselves because they have no interest in sex.
At least his posts would be somewhat on topic.
Longest post ever coming up.
I was actually pretty on the fence about this myself, I’m not sure what it was that changed my mind, I think I started focusing more on androgyny and forgot something. I myself thought there was no reason why cis-gendered people couldn’t be any orientation, but I must have read something wrong somewhere.
Yeah, I know, you made your point pretty well in your previous sentence. I have to admit your attention to detail is impressive.
Fair enough, you obviously have more experience than anyone else in the thread, so I can’t argue (nor would I want to) about that.
I considered that as well, but thought there would be another-ality suffixed word that I hadn’t discovered yet, and didn’t feel like searching again. On topic, is there a term for people that are only attracted to transsexuals?
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I guess essentialism is the only way how I can roll because of this…
You admittedly did sound a bit dickish, because this really is my first time having such an extensive discussion on these topics. Your later posts however show…I don’t know what, maybe you’re sick if explaining this to people that aren’t used to it, and honestly I don’t blame you. In either case I know you weren’t trying to be a dick.
I’m pretty sure it was the lbgt wiki I linked in my first post. Maybe not, sorry if I’m wrong.
Point taken, and I’m sure I hate this double standard/stereotype as much as you do. 
I know about the Hijras, I was just talking about in the context of western society in general, because once again, I can only speak in generalities for someone having so little experience.
Alright, I just forgot about the term intersex, would AIS people fall into that label as well?
Are there any other performing genders? And what is a performing gender? I only briefly browsed a wikipedia entry just now and still am not quite sure of what that is exactly, maybe I’ll look at the lbgt wiki later.
Point taken again, but does this mean you have to be bigender to be a crossgender or transvestite? This sentence read a little clunky to me. I can’t tell if you mean “one gender identity presenting as another” as in they are totally separate until the occasion arises, or if it is an additional gender that is always present. Forgive me, it’s 3 in the morning in my neck of the woods of this post.
This is odd to me, because I read totally androgynous clothing as an amalgamation of the genders, rather than the absence of them; for lack of a better term agender, which to me is like when you have someone of a completely indeterminable gender because they are wearing a sort of totally neutral uniform that anyone could be in with the right care, and not look like one gender or the other. Just an opinion.
Once again, this is a given. I’m trying my best.
Pretty much, but any ethical system based on something that has standards changing all the time with plenty of double standards (gender etc) isn’t really something that sounds like getting into. That’s like making an ethical sytem based on if it’s ok if an asian person does x or y or a hispanic person does x or y. It seems to me like it’s just an elaborate game of playing devil’s advocate.
The funny thing about gender, is that it’s subjective, but it most cases it isn’t treated as such, so stereotypes become the truth. Cross-culturally, every race and ethnicity has it’s on definitions of what makes someone male or female, probably even for every sexual orientation there are different criteria for this as well. Just a thought.
You were probably thinking about Eden Atwood. Once again, gender is subjective, but part of it’s determination is in objective criteria, as in the case of assigned sex at birth. In terms of not dividing people, it would be nice, but people are too finicky and order oriented to let that slip by.
I didn’t, because this thread isn’t going to focus on that.
Edit: I’ll probably add spoiler tags like my latest post.
Calm down dude. I agree with you about almost everything regarding gender inequality, but somethings just aren’t worth arguing with some people.
What’s your point? Traps are sexy and yes there are passable 3D traps. Not all traps exist in anime/manga/video games/Visual Kei bands.
I know man, from this point on I’m ignoring that chick’s troll-bait, I’ve already wasted too much effort.