I feel like after that we’d have to redefine what Gender is.
My everything hurts
We could complicate matters even further by noting that there are some who actively prefer transpeople and/or cross-gender expression in prospective mates…a whole other dimension we could look at. 
There’s a whole spectrum of categories we could use - some might say, a rainbow 
Sex and gender are both already not mutually exclusive.
Those people are called scoliosexuals. At least with transexuals, not sure about people that identify as transgendered or queer, or genderqueer.
I’ve never heard that one before I’ve heard ‘chasers’ or ‘fetishists’ (usually being used by trans people denouncing said group) but never scoliosexuals.
Right, chaser is derogatory, I have heard of that.
I have to draw a point with this as fuel (though it’s not contesting your post or anything since you’re talking about two new labels).
I know a heterosexual guy who can not, and I do repeat~ can not possible be with a male. He is as heterosexual as can be, and just doesn’t get turned on by male bodies or genders. It doesn’t work for him, physically, emotionally or romantically. However, he has fallen pretty hard for his MTF girlfriend. They are in love as people long before they ever had anything physical, and it beat out pretty much any notion of she being anything but female. He’s still heterosexual, and if that relationship breaks up he’ll continue to seek girls.
He’s not going to just, suddenly be into guys just because of this change. The critical thing is, like you mentioned in the start~ all heterosexual individuals need to be, is attracted to females as a gender. The body actually becomes a sort of preference from what I’ve seen. Obviously the more she passes, the better the odds she’ll be able to be with a more openminded heterosexual guy~ but the fact she’s MTF, doesn’t really have any bearing. This is just in my experience…
This is why I despise the notion of “Oh Pansexuals are bi except they also like transpeople~” … when trans are their target gender. It’s not like there has to be a special orientation to have them apply. If you’re a homosexual guy, your odds of really getting into a transwoman are pretty damn low. Because you’re not into chicks~ even if she has a the parts to say otherwise, it’s a total conflict of orientation.
But you could also use that same logic and say all heterosexual individuals need to be is attracted to females as a sex and it would still be totally valid.
Gets even more complicated for gay men, assuming bears are considered masculine and twinks feminine, even though there are much more feminine gay men than twinks, in terms of how they dress and behave.
I think the term pansexual has some use, I guess, but honestly, it seems sort of redundant - as never to my knowledge have I ever met someone who was bi who seemed to particularly care if someone was trans or not…
It becomes even less useful if the person who uses the word pansexual to describe themselves doesn’t know and isn’t literally every gender in existence.
As a bi-curious individual myself, I can say I am overtly intrigued by trans individuals.
I think the identity in these cases have a lot more to do with it than just expression. A really girly gay guy, is still a guy~ and maybe effeminate traits are enjoyed… but when a ‘guy’ doesn’t identify as one, and changes their whole life, appearance, way of being~ physical hormonal state, etc… it goes well beyond masculinity or femininity. Every subtle little thing about them changes. For a lot of gay guys, this just puts MTFs really out of the scope of attractiveness, though~ this isn’t to say some of them wouldn’t be with a girl. More homosexuals are actually bi and don’t really acknowledge or identify with it~ it’s a peculiar thing. It gets pretty impressive when you bring FTMs into the topic.
I think pansexuals can technically be attracted to anything. Hence, car-fucking videos on YouTube.
I don’t agree with gender re-assignment.
If you’re born a man, be a man.
If you’re born a woman, be a woman.
Be as gay as you want but don’t try and be something you most certaintly aren’t.
I don’t believe that “Man trapped in a woman’s body” bullshit either.
There’s probably a ton of things you don’t believe, but are true. Ton of things you probably hold to heart, that also hold no water. Not sure how your barometer of belief has any distinction about what is. What you believe in is up to you, but you’d still be wrong about transsexuality as a whole by not acknowledging its existence purely out of some emotional rhetoric.
The entire"x trapped in x" is crap anyway~ that’s not what’s happening in transsexual brains at all. That’s a media slant, apparently to make it easier for cispeople to judge and understand trans issues that needs to be dropped. They should stop being coddled and treated like idiots and you can do some reading if you actually cared.
Also, orientation (“being gay”) has zilch, zero, nada to do with gender… so not sure why you even brought that up in relation to transsexuality.
Who knew posting my opinion on a subject in a thread about posting your opinion on a subject would inspire people to post negative opinions about my opinion on the subject.
And I don’t have any emotional rhetorics, I’ve never had a negative experience with any transsexuals nor am I religious in the slightest if you assumed either of those.
It’s as simple as I just don’t agree with it, I don’t need an essay on why I’m wrong, I just don’t agree with it.
Now don’t get me wrong I’m not going to go out of my way to avoid transgendered people or protest them, but I will openly admit I don’t like idea of sex changing. I don’t hold prejudice to those people because everyone is different, but I still don’t agree with what they’ve done.
It’s not your position to disagree with a fact of life.
What you might mean is that you dislike the idea of it, which raises the question… why? What concerns you about it?
How is it a fact of life?
I just feel like if you’re born a man or a woman, why change that?
Why?
It exists, and its existence isn’t dependent on whether or not you agree with it.
People have their reasons. You don’t have to understand them. That said, this is a weirdly insubstantial justification for disliking something.
Anyway, on that book.
From what I’ve read so far they explain there are three types of fetishism.
Anthropoligical - i.e. When people obsess over a particular musician, celebritiy, etc…they are basically making them a personal deity, this can overlap with sexual fetisism according to the book. This is usually stigmatized as a female fetish, but you could argue that males have similar fixations on their sports teams.
"[…]who in their analysis of Beatlemania have suggested that female pop fans often choose the male stars that represent move ‘subversive’ versions of heterosexuality, because the men hey have access to do not fulfill their ‘needs’ or ‘dreams’ (pg. 21)
I can only assume those needs and dreams are along the lines of empathy and “getting it” emotionally that most male musicians exude that appeals to a female audience. Being feminine in the way of being emotionally open, but still being male.
Commodity- Typically considered a feminine type of fetish in regards to clothing and a masculine type of fetish in terms of alchohol, i.e. beer, or things like cigars and other types of manly items.
Naturally, as a male I’m more fixated on the more masculine descriptions of fetishes.
**"The quasi-peaceable gentlemen of leisure, then, consumes of the staff of life beyond minimum required for subsistence and physical efficiency, but his consumption also undergoes a specialization as regards the quality of the goods consumed. He consumes freely and of the best in food, drink, narcotics, shelter, services, ornaments, apparel, weapons, and accouterments, amusements, amulets, and idols or divinities. In the process of gradual amelioration **(to make better) which takes place in the articles of his consumption, the motive principle and the proximate aim of innovation is no doubt the higher efficiency of the improved and more elaborate products for personal comfort and well-being. But that does not remain the sole purpose of their consumption…it now becomes incumbent on him to discriminate with some nicety between the noble and the ignoble in consumable goods. He becomes a connoisseur of incredible viands of various degrees of merit, in manly beverages and trinkets, in seemly apparel and architecture, in weapons, games, dances and the narcotics. This cultivation of he aesthetic faculty requires in this direction therefore tend to change his life of leisure into a more or less arduous application to the business of learning how to live a life of ostensible leisure in a becoming way. Closely related to the requirement that the gentleman must consume freely and of the right kind of goods, there is the requirement that he must know how to consume them in a seemly manner. His life of leisure must be conducted in due form. Hence arise good manners…High bred manners and ways of living are items of conformity to the norm of conspicuous leisure and conspicuous consumption. Conspicuous consumption of valuable goods is a means of reputability to the gentleman of leisure…" (pg 29-30)
The best example I can make of this is just the idea of owning your own house, with nothing but what you want in it, the way you want it to look. My preferred lazy evening would be me sitting in a leather chair drinking a rum and coke while watching Boardwalk Empire, smoking a cigarette or cigar.
The transformation of the commodity relation into a thing of ‘ghostly objectivity’ cannot therefore content itself with the reduction of all objects for the gratification of human needs to commodities. It stamps its imprint upon the whole consciousness of the man; his qualities and abilities are no longer an organic part of his personality, they are things which he can ‘own’ or ‘dispose of’ like the various objects of the external world. And there is no natural form in which human relations can be cast, no way in which man can bring his physical and psychic ‘qualities’ into play without their being subjected increasingly to this reifying process." (pg. 31)
I think of it this way, in reference to that last passage, the entirety of the ideal me would best be symbolized as an infinite series of compartments, maybe even drawers of the mind I associate with myself, each explored and cross-referenced to the fullest extent. To be fully aware of your limitations at all times. A self effacing neuro-web of observation and trial and error constantly evaluating itself, like a computer, leaving “me” to only have to make the decisions and feel the feelings. Basically using your brain and self as a multi-faceted tool and toy.
Sexual- Haven’t read much on this yet.
Because every morning when you wake up in the mirror and see something you’re not, interact with the world in a way that doesn’t make sense to you and see things in a way that conflict with your gender, it becomes a living nightmare. You can’t understand this situation because you’re applying your own personal reason for something. You see someone with a handicap like bad vision firing lasers into it and can’t get it because your vision is fine. They should be happy with living their lives with it. Like you suggest, you’d be happy that people suffer with inherent dysphoria about their birth gender. It’s not as simple as aesthetics, or wanting to become women, or men.
The world inside a transsexual person is in flux, because their brains are telling them they are another gender than what they are. Forget dressing as their target gender~ or any such expressionism. Just having hormones in your body that regulate this does SO much~ and it’s not as simple as giving a MTF trans testosterone, or an FTM estrogen… because the more of that hormone put into them, the more it clashes.
This goes beyond just orientation like I said too~ sorry, but gay guys don’t have emotional dysphoria related to their bodies, or genitalia or other aspects of their forms that make them unable to function as a person. They don’t have dysphoria about the fact they’ll never have kids, or have a family. When they get a boyfriend, they don’t feel terrible that they’ll never be able to give them children or start a fucking family. It’s heavy stuff, and it hits them all the time, and only the best of them don’t even let you know much they’re suffering.
Because nobody wants to suffer~ nobody wants to be handicapped or freaking disabled mentally~ and so the whole purpose of changing gender, and doing their best to blend into it aesthetically is so they don’t have to wear that freaking torture in front of them all the time. They just want to live their lives, without having to deal with the fact they’re trans at all… but it’s hard when people can so freely insult them, ‘disagree’ with the fact they even exist~ or give them flack for existing.
For most, the question to “why change that?” eventually leads to “why was I fucking born at all?” or “why am I even here?” Transsexuals on average commit suicide more than nearly any other demographic, even amongst LGBT. It’s not something that’s easily explained or understood because people barely have a grasp on what gender is in the first place. Honestly, if you ever even MEET a transitioning transsexual… that person just underwent an amputation of something that was killing them. At the cost of possibly their family, job and friends. If you MEET a transgirl, they’re survivors of that entire process. If you don’t even identify them, even better for them because they don’t have to carry part of them for others to judge like a scar.
But you won’t meet most of them~ because not everyone has the strength to deal with cutting off their old life, like you’d cut off an arm or leg to prevent infection. Not everyone can bear it. “Why change it?” Some don’t. They die instead.