The Gem System Thread

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter x Tekken
981

Haha this thread has completely and irreperably damaged my opinions on some things that’s for sure.

From the beginning, multiple people have been saying the opposite. The better someone knows how to block, the more useful the auto-block gem is in terms that actually matter to fighting games. In the sense of absolute health saved, the gem is inferior, but like… who cares? If you’re blocking everything, it’s not valuable at all, but who cares you blocked everything anyway.

So auto-block will negate the power of mixups into combos at least 3 times if you have a full bar? Are you saying that or am I reaching? Is this a conclusion you would support? But let me answer you as well. Yes, there are more ways than a mixup to deal damage to an opponent. However, this is an important way to do it, and the Tekken element probably means this game has a lot of characters that do it. Even if it doesn’t it’s universal enough that this would have a big impact. This isn’t something I should need to state.

What makes a good mixup anyway? You want a mixup that is impossible to guess correctly. Almost by definition though, they are all hard to guess correctly. No matter how good you are at fighting games, this is an element you want to be in your favor. Rock/Paper/Scissors may be something you can get good at, but it’s still Rock/Paper/Scissors.

Pretty much everyone’s post has been “you lost meter that you are going to use for important things” when you’re using it for the most important thing.

Does it activate if you are holding down-back and get hit by an overhead? Does it activate if you are holding back and get hit by a low? The whole negating mixups aspects depends on just this, everything else you’ve told us we already know, but if it is first hand knowledge that’s still good to know.

…yeah.

P.S.: If anyone’s answer to someone’s mixups being autoblocked is “mix them up more” then don’t quote me ever (medical reasons [I can only take so much shit])

Edit: DETHRONE THE RING LEADER!

Maybe they don’t take it to heart and are just discussing stuff? Discussing the gems we know the most about in the Gem System Thread? If it bothers you so much, go ahead and bring up something else interesting about the system. If you think talking about it is premature, don’t talk about it.

982

It’s weird, this has a direct analogue in Magic with Fog. People argue for it using pretty much the exact same logic, but the card is a complete piece of shit, because it doesn’t do anything for your board. If you’re in deep shit, and it saves you, almost always you are still in deep shit.

**

If you’re blocking everything without the gem, then you’re blocking everything and doing 10% less damage during your combos or whatever, for no good reason.

983

Blocking “everything” is kind of a daunting task tho. I agree with fallot, not having to be worried during oki ever and only having to be vigilant during footsies ? You’d have to come up with a REALLY fucking good alternative for people to pass that one up.

984

Of course. It’s much more likely that you won’t be blocking quite enough to get the best use out of it. Even pros eat stray hits that don’t lead to serious damage a few times a round.

985

What? We already know that don’t we? If the gem uses up meter when you normally block, it’s completely worthless even for newbies, why would it be that way?

[media=youtube]A9N5JJdFgHg[/media]

The only question is if it corrects high/low for you.

Yup, the relative value problem again. Who cares if you’re doing 10% less damage if you’re blocking everything? Blocking everything is not something you can reasonably use in a discussion about the game because it is impossible, the person successfully blocking everything is most likely the victor (. Mixups rely on being guesses, the less you can react to the better the mixup. True 50/50s must be guessed. While some players can apparently get better at this, it’s still a guess. This is fighting game 101.

As for the gem being more valuable the more uses you get out of it, this is an extremely, extremely narrow minded view of the situation that has been answered multiple times. I don’t think it bears repeating again.

986

Doesn’t that video only show that you don’t lose extra meter for blocking strings?

Do you have any other examples? Not saying it isn’t the case, just curious. And I honestly hope it doesn’t block high/low for you.

987

When did Health become obsolete? I thought that shit was important, rather not lose a huge chunk of life for guessing wrong.

988

Everyone. Blocking doesn’t win you the game unless you’re already winning, in which case who cares how good the gem is, you’d probably win either way.

Even if you just want to keep blocking everything, you don’t build shit for meter without pressing buttons in this game.

It probably will. Auto-mode in Alpha blocked low for you, although it didn’t actually put you into a crouch state.

989

I’m afraid not! I really wish there was more. Personally I don’t think it’s a big jump from the video to assume normally blocking doesn’t use up meter, because otherwise the gem would be worse than useless. As in actually harmful to anyone who equips it, at any level of play, and very obviously too so I doubt Capcom would miss it. I do hope I’m wrong, as you do, about the high/low thing.

Perhaps that was a bit unfair to say. Let me rephrase it: it doesn’t matter, because that is a non-situation. You said it yourself anyway, it can’t be counted on to happen. This is why you shouldn’t care.

But I already said that in the next line after the one you quoted.

990

I’m really interested in seeing maximum speed boost Zangief…

Who’s the fastest in the game currently? Abel? I hate to think what would become of an Abel maxed out on speed gems.

I know training mode is going to be fun :rofl:

991

I wonder how would the speed gems work? I mean, would it be restricted solely to character movement speed, or would it go all out and affect the actual frame data of their moves (recovery frames for example)?

992

probably movement speed, because altering frame data is gonna be a task

@fallout actually I like talking about the Gem system the thing I don’t like is people bashing the game before it comes out. That kind of annoys me

993

Two of the main problems with the gems from what I’ve read on forums. Are the DLC ones and how time consuming selecting these gems will be for a tournament. All Capcom needs to is have the first five gems in one of the categories don’t really do anything but maybe like change the colors of some attacks(or something like that). I don’t think that would be a problem and use those in tournaments.

About the gems, personally I’m pretty much excited for it since its different. Could be very interesting in my eyes. Think some people should be open minded until you try it out yourself.

994

Well share something then, I’m not exactly keen on harping about the same thing constantly either.

995

I have been trying to tell these guys the same thing or at least along the same lines, but ur wasting ur time…seriously— we are the minority on this topic, in-till they see it “fully” & “proactively” then maybe will the light bulb go off & they will say “***oh, wow…really…that’s how it works” ***…something like that

what is funny, WE are only discussing **one gem **

996

**

You should care. Who says you blocked everything anyway?

Therefore, using frametraps, footsies and punishes, you can be beaten even if you blocked correctly in every situation where you decided not to do anything.

Also, it burns your meter. What fighting game are you playing where meter isn’t important? Not SFxT. If I’m down 50% life and need a comeback, having meter available for the combo that wins me the game matters a lot more in fighting games than not being able to be mixed up.

No, I’m saying it will negate the power of mixups at most 3 times with a full bar. And yes, I support that conclusion. Meter persists throughout rounds, and if you spend it all saving yourself from my mixups, then I have access to 60%+ damage combos and the other game mechanics, and you don’t. Plus, I have access to at least one more gem that I can use to boost my damage, defense, speed, or meter gain, that you don’t have because you used a slot to make sure you can block me if you aren’t pressing buttons. Advantage: me.

And it isn’t something you need to state. But you’re dwelling on the fact that people can use this gem to auto-block your mixup, and not even taking into account how the meter they spend to do it hurts most of the other ways they can deal and avoid taking damage. Mixup isn’t guaranteed damage in any situation, and you should always be prepared for the possibility that your mixup gets blocked *anyway. *Besides that, auto-block does not negate EVERY kind of mixup.

And *I *shouldn’t need to be stating that.

And what makes you conclude that blocking mixups is the most important thing in this game? Have you *played *it? From my experience, the most important thing in SFxT, just like in all fighting games, is to win the round. And since raw tagging is unsafe, combos are easy, juggling is easy, few moves are invincible outside of EX moves, and 2-3 bars of meter can easily lead to 60%+ life loss, you don’t necessarily need to land a bunch of high/low, crossup, or wakeup mixups to win in this game.

But then, you never really had to land a bunch of mixups to win at Street Fighter in general, anyway. Hell, Ryu’s my main. He has almost no compelling mixups. How do you think I win matches? How did Daigo win matches when he was playing Ryu? Wasn’t on mixups.

I bet it will. I think that’s the whole point of auto-blocking.

Perfect analogy.

Ever? Did you miss the part where using this takes 1/3 of your meter, every time? You don’t have to worry about oki 3 times, max, before you have to start building your meter from scratch again. And you should be worried about losing your meter. Sure, losing health is often times worse, but you’ll be losing health more often with no meter.

997

One more thing to point out AGAIN

the auto block gem for example is a ASSIST GEM, hence the word ASSIST… it cannot be use in a preemptive fashion like some of u are saying for instance blocking high lvl mixups on the fly etc.etc.

it only assist u in blocking, and it is timed.

when the condition’s are met which u must be hit a few times and u must not be mashing like noobs do or the gem will not block for u, I repeat will not block for u and like Nitro said and any like minded player has said the gem takes** 1 bar of meter per block **that is a ton and if the noob decides to use it completely or advance player… yeah again u can kiss **ALL ur meter goodbye … **meter is very important in this game, learn about the cross gauge in what lvl1, lvl2, lvl3 meters allow u do

I dont see what the problem is? and** No** i disagree with UltraDavid saying u buy ur skill lvl now with these gems lol, I dont see it that way when u take account ALL the information in regarding to the gems, conditions, ramifications, what they do, how they are activated and so forth…and he said this game could be anti competitive really? i think not…this is going to offer alot of customization options u would never have and the fighting system looks badass…

998

Assist gems are passive and not timed. Boost gems are active and timed.

And I like how you’re all “kiss all your meter goodbye” like that’s worse than “kiss all your health goodbye”. Chain system.

999

I think the whole question of DLC Gems depends on a number of factors. If they are simply early access to gems that are unlockable, this is no real issue. If they are paid gems, there are a couple situations where it could work out. If they are gems without real competitive effects, no problem (like auras in Tekken or such). Or if they are fun, game-breaking gems that are only available by turning on in a system direction style options menu, I’d also be fine with that.

1000