Except when it lags which causes you to drop combos while obviously your opponent is completely unaffected…
Has anyone mentioned Valentine’s savage bypass assist pushing the opp all the way to the other end even on block? I think it helps Peacock out a lot and should count in Val’s assist tier placement
Did that get patched out/mentioned and ctrl f didnt’ show me? Haven’t played in ages
Character: Parasoul
Rank: Top
**Reasoning: She’s just such a complete character. Zoning, Great space control, great air control, nice mindgames with her overheads, pressure, and insane kara throw, hell an insane kara everything, plus she has an SRK. Too Good. **
Lo’ and behold, I have a chart.
http://i.minus.com/ibruGhXWLndGS4.png
I’ve been working on this for quite a while now, gathering data ever since I started getting comfortable with the game (like maybe 2 weeks or so after SG was released).
The scores are determined from my own impressions from playing against high level players as well as discussing character analysis with others that can critically analyze characters and valuate how good moves and tactics are relative to other characters.
Because of this, I don’t have a full write-up for each and every single character and it will be difficult for me to write them up by myself because I don’t get even experience playing against every character.
Scores are from 1 to 10. Overall is the average of all parameters. The ones in green aren’t counted towards the average.
So far everyone seems fairly strong and even in strength, but some have more obvious or easily detrimental weaknesses that require a team to help cover.
Double
[details=Spoiler]Double
Neutral - 8
Her j.HP is very good for spacing and she can also poke
with Luger Shot as a way to annoy those who try to zone
her. Her dash is also very fast and crosses up, so you
can dash toward them while they’re close enough to cross
them up or quickly move in while they’re doing a move.
Her j.HK is also very good as it helps cover her from
assists, safely.
Because of how fast her air normals are and how quickly
she falls, it’s very difficult to challenge a well
spaced Double.
Offense - 10
During her combos, there are many places to reset them
with a throw, cross them up with the teacup.
Cattelite super allows for very heavy pressure. During
the super you can mix them up by crossing them up or
doing throw/low mixups. There are so many options, that
you’re very likely to get a hit eventually during this
super.
Her on-block pressure is fairly poor without the
cattelite super, so it’s best to retreat back to
neutral, or poke with a single safe move and then do
something else (jump, dash crossup, dash away, etc.),
but because meter is so abundant in SkullGirls, Double
will have at least 1 bar of meter almost the entire
match.
Defense - 9
Hornet Bomber H. This move goes full screen and has
invincibility from startup, until the peak of the arc.
If spaced properly on block, can be super cancelled into
Cattelite super to turn defense into offense instantly.
If you end up too close to them, you can get punished if
you try to go into cattelites, so it’s a very high
risk-high reward move.
Other than that, her normals are either fairly slower
than most others or are very short ranged as to be
unuseable as a poke, but a well placed dash combined
with pushblock could get you out of pressure.
Reward - 7
Double can hit confirm from anywhere into her combo that
does 5-6k. She builds 90-100 units of meter in every
completed combo she does. Moreso, overall, with resets.
Assist and team size versatility - 9
Double is a very good solo character that can deal with
a team’s pressure using an assist and also has the best
DHC and assist moves to use in her arsenal.
Her level 3 takes a long time to complete, so that means
plenty of red life recovered, as well as doing a minimum
of 5k damage. Cattelites is also a very good super to
DHC into as it means you start off with a reset
opportunity on offense instead of just a super to tack
on damage.
Hornet Bomber H is a very good assist move that does
everything you would need an assist to do.
Character Versatility - 3 (flavour descriptor, not
counted towards average)
Her gameplan is very straightforward and because of her
nature as a character, it doesn’t leave much room to the
imagination. The few gameplans she can execute are good
enough for her to not need anything else.
Complexity - 4 (flavour descriptor, not counted towards
average)
Not too many options on defense, and a fair number on
offense, but overall it’s very limited. A generally
straightforward character.
OVERALL - 8.6
Double is a solid character that isn’t dramatically weak
in any area.[/details]
Parasoul (unavailable)
Spoiler
Cerebella (unavailable)
Spoiler
Filia (unavailable)
Spoiler
Painwheel (unavailable)
Spoiler
Ms. Fortune (incomplete)
Spoiler
Neutral 7/10: While the head can be powerful in neutral, it can be negated by staying in the air. It’s another accessibility issue: She doesn’t get to use the head in neutral at all times, but when she can it’s very good. I also took into account her normals for general spacing wars. her j.HK needs time to come out and the hurtbox is in the hitbox, so it will get beat out by things like Valentine’s j.HP or Parasoul’s j.HP quite easily. It has a lot of range, so you have to space it and time it well. The head not being useable at times is part of what takes her down to 7, but 7 is still really good.
Offense - 7/10: Blockstrings end up being very pushblockable and punishable by assists. The threat of the head is negated a fair bit by just staying in the air.
When comboing, the head is very useful for resets and combos, though. I think 7/10 is fair for her offense when considering other characters like Painwheel and Valentine where because of their multi-hit moves, they can keep you locked down easier and usually like to stay in the air anyway.
Defense 6.5/10: While her 214P is a very good reversal, it only really works on the ground, and it only works with her head on. This means she has accessibility issues with her defensive tools making them lower than most other characters. 623LK+LK, while very good at converting into a meterless combo on hit, isn’t very reliable because the active frames are very short and only hit once, the range is very short horizontally, and the invincibility is short, so it’s much easier to get punished attempting to do a reversal through something when compared to the kinds of reversals that other characters have. With that said, I still ended up giving her a 6.5 for her defense because the reward for landing a reversal is very good.[/details]
Valentine (incomplete)
[details=Spoiler]Valentine
Neutral - 7.5
Valentine’s air mobility combined with her multi-hit and large air normals, gives her a very good neutral game.
Her ground normals are also very large, making it difficult to punish her for whiffed moves.
Offense - 8
Valentine’s normals make it very difficult for the opponent to pushblock properly, allowing her opportunities to tick-throw and generally keeping her safe from retaliation.
Defense - 2
Without a meterless reversal, and with no real anti-air, Valentine’s defense is quite poor.
Reward - 9.5
Valentine can get around 6-7k damage midscreen and generally her combos are so long that they end up pushing the opponent into the corner, and because they are so long, this gives more time for her team to recover red health.
Assist and Team Size Versatility - 5
If on a team, it should be focused around Valentine, as she doesn’t have very many good assist moves, but she works very well solo or with assists backing her up.
Her level 5 grants potential for being a good anchor but, at this time she doesn’t seem too strong when not on point. Her supers aren’t as good as some others for Blockbuster sequels as you can’t combo off them, and have lower minimum damage.
Peacock (unavailable)
Spoiler
Try not to jump at the low scores too much, as this mostly just shows what kinds of weaknesses and strengths each character has when solo. Using an assist to cover a character’s weakness will always make a character stronger.
Nonetheless, this post is an invitation to add insight that I do not have so that I may better detail each character’s analysis.
I think a mere rank of SABCD is a bit too broad an evaluation.
Gah, can’t believe character versatility for Fortune is 4/10!
reads disclaimer
Heh. I jumped at the low score. I suppose I can offer insight.
Head on, Fortune has damaging HP normals and access to yet another invincible move for her defense. I really only care for s.HP and j.HP mostly. Once the head is off Fortune has a normal that goes across the screen, along with a possible projectile to cover the air (s.HK on the head, which also allows her to follow the head with a super jump), and a way to defend herself against rampant zoning.
A single hit having the head off can guarantee ALWAYS an extension of the combo if the head is off. Since during your normals (easier during multi-hit normals s.MK and j.MK) you can move your head with f+HP/b+HP/HP the head will always be in position. There hasn’t been a single blockbuster done by me since release that doesn’t follow up into a head move to extend the combo.
Having the head off makes her a more versatile character. So while it’s odd, perhaps a separate rating for headless Fortune is needed. Consider Fortune’s offense having the head off increases because of the constant threat by the head and blockstrings with head juggling allowing for resets and other horrible things. Her defense increases with the head on because she has two different invincible moves with vastly different results (unsafe on block dp+LK,LK into full combo, or qcb+HP which is safer on block). Her neutral game is also worthy of discussion because while completely neutral, if headless the head can move around without committing Fortune to any animations, or during super jumping the head is completely out of sight. While comboing assists, the head can be used to hit the point character. It’s like you have two separate characters.
Headless, Fortune’s versatility I’d say is about… 8/10. The head does make an insane difference.
Head on? Yeah, 4/10 sounds about right.
Character versatility is a flavour descriptor. It’s not part of the average. lol
Overall, she can only do one gameplan, which is rushdown and kind of zone with the head off. The times at which she would be able to get the head airborne or get it in a useful position if very specific, she doesn’t have access to all of the heads options at all times, contrast to Parasoul where she can use napalm shot at any time to help her zone other characters out.
Offense - 7/10: Blockstrings end up being very pushblockable and punishable by assists. The threat of the head is negated a fair bit by just staying in the air.
When comboing, the head is very useful for resets and combos, though. I think 7/10 is fair for her offense when considering other characters like Painwheel and Valentine where because of their multi-hit moves, they can keep you locked down easier and usually like to stay in the air anyway.
Defense 6.5/10: While her 214P is a very good reversal, it only really works on the ground, and it only works with her head on. This means she has accessibility issues with her defensive tools making them lower than most other characters. 623LK+LK, while very good at converting into a meterless combo on hit, isn’t very reliable because the active frames are very short and only hit once, the range is very short horizontally, and the invincibility is short, so it’s much easier to get punished attempting to do a reversal through something when compared to the kinds of reversals that other characters have. With that said, I still ended up giving her a 6.5 for her defense because the reward for landing a reversal is very good.
Neutral 7/10: While the head can be powerful in neutral, it can be negated by staying in the air. It’s another accessibility issue: She doesn’t get to use the head in neutral at all times, but when she can it’s very good. I also took into account her normals for general spacing wars. her j.HK needs time to come out and the hurtbox is in the hitbox, so it will get beat out by things like Valentine’s j.HP or Parasoul’s j.HP quite easily. It has a lot of range, so you have to space it and time it well. The head not being useable at times is part of what takes her down to 7, but 7 is still really good.
I can see what you’re saying now.
I take offense to this considering there isn’t much to know about fortune outside of cat head loops and om nom. Don’t start glorifying characters because all of these hoes are easy to pick up and go.
how am i glorifying fortune exactly? im saying compared to other characters she requires a lot more thought/effort to make good use of the head since you need to think of it independently from her body.
I’m not against any chart-making, per se, but the problem is that you haven’t defined any of your variables.
How exactly do you define “reward”, for instance? Is it strictly the damage you get from opening up or punishing a mistake? Or are there not other factors to consider (positioning, meter building, etc.)?
Also, are all 5 variables equally weighted? If so, do you have justification for it? If a character has a high “reward” value for example, does it matter if they almost never will be able to create a situation in which they can reap rewards?
Secondly, can you argue that Offense and Defense are equally viable in the game?
Personally, I believe it may be in Skullgirls, but there are plenty of games where there certainly isn’t one.
It’s seriously not all that difficult to manage. You just can’t be inattentive, and if you are why bother playing the game? what’s difficult to manage with the head? getting smacked? It’s still an extension of you, it’s not like it comes with any hidden variables you know exactly what you can do with it. Not really understanding the effort or difficulty, maybe it’s because I’m used to Ice climbers and Carl…
Exactly like the list i already said, but filia is NOT better than painwheel at all. big error there buddy.
These are the definitions for the variables:
[details=Spoiler] Character Parameters
Parameters will be rated from 1 to 10 (10 meaning best, not perfect), including halves. Each parameter is weighed in its own category,
so please take a look at each description to fully understand
how the assessment was made.
Neutral Viability
A review of how well the character fairs in neutral situations,
especially in respect to how the character can shift into an
offensive or damage dealing state,
as well as avoid being put into a defensive or receiving damage state.
Offensive Viability
An overview of the character’s ability
to create damage opportunities
when they have the advantage,
as well as prevent the opponent
from escaping or safely retaliating.
Defensive Viability
An evaluation of the character’s ability to escape
from situations where they are at a disadvantage
or create opportunities to retaliate.
Reward Assessment
A general outlook on a character’s average
damage and tension gain, taking into account
how often maximum or minimum
damage situations can occur.
Also assess other potential rewards.
Assist and Team size Versatility
Describes a character’s viability to take part in multiple team sizes,
including good assist moves, and how well a character
fares with an assist as well as without.
The more team sizes the character
can be used on viably, the higher the rank.
Character Versatility
Describes the character’s ability to execute
numerous viable game plans. (Not included in average)
Complexity
Describes the character’s ability in terms of the number of
TOTAL options in any given time. (Not included in average)
Current Assessment
An average of all above factors[/details]
If a character isn’t able to use his reward properly, that would mean that one of the other parameters would be very low.
If your offense and neutral are terrible, your score is going to end up very low by consequence.
Currently, all parameters are weighed evenly. Though, I may put extra weight on Neutral and Offense.
Worldjem’s list is interesting because his Top 3 I see as having the worst mobility in the game.
Yeah like a high mobility character who doesn’t take chip damage and has beam specials that do a ton of it, right?
peacock sucks… i never really lose to peacock players. you get in on them one time its GG, also that proves my point right there peacock only good with buttslam that limits the character by a ton.
The point is, you can’t tell a characters good based on “common sense”, because you can’t yet know all the tools a character possesses. Maybe Peacock has some undiscovered god tier glitch move or some shit that beats everything and is 100% safe? Obviously that’s an exaggerated example, but tier lists have been completely turned around by the discovery of esoteric techniques.
REGARDLESS OF WETHER PEACOCK IS GOOD OR NOT, NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT RIGHT NOW, saying you can tell if a character is good or not on month 1 is incredibly short sighted imo. I recall Iceman, Doom, and Blackheart were above Sentinel and Storm once…
Parasoul
Double
Fortune
Pain
Cere
Val
Fil
Cock
I’m right
I don’t think double is as high as people say she is, I think cerebella deserves more credit, maybe top 3. Parasoul is obviously the best. Filia isn’t amazing just because mike plays her, probably bottom 2. Valentine is underrated, don’t think she’s bottom 3.
Imo Fillia isn’t top or bottom. I think she’s lowish mid tier at the moment.
-She’s got the best mix up game I think, but it’s not such a big deal in a game where everyone has pretty rad mix ups.
-Bad hit confirms off of low attacks as has been stated a million times.
-Pretty good mobility. Fast air dash and wave dash, and Sj. Air Hairballs are great.
-Very unsafe approaches. All of her air dash in attacks can be psychic punished in some way by other normals.
-Decent defense with Dp into safe super. Her normal anti air tactics are pretty nice too.
-Kind of mediocre damage I guess?