Bella can infinite Fortunes head by doing (cr.LK, cr.MK)xN which forces Fortune to actually come over and make you stop, don’t know how ultimately useful that is because I haven’t played against much fortune though.
Does anyone think a character they DON’T main is the best/top tier?
It seems to be a bit of bias without any comparison to other characters due to a lack of understanding on equal levels of competing characters’ tools/potential.
Peacock can (s.mk xx L GDO) * N in a similar way. Probably helps Peacock more due to free damage and meter gain plus the ability to hold H Shadow while doing this to keep the body in check. Bella can at least cr.lk, cr.mk, Titan Knuckle the head back across the screen; Peacock’s st.hk doesn’t push it as far back and MP Bang has the recovery to go through.
I think i may have found a new shell… I dont know how powerful it is, but in testing it seems pretty damn good:
Painwheel (mp fireball)/peacock (hp item drop)
Why its good:
Painwheel has major issues in many areas and this assist seems to solve almost all of them:
Painwheel needs a range assist to put the opponent in blockstun so she can advance on them.
Painwheel needs an assist whos projectile wont interact with other projectiles… So that pw can get projectile advantage.
Pw needs an assist that can hit airborn opponents since pw air moves are so situational
Pw also needs an assist that can hit the ground
Pw needs some gtfo so that she can safely enter flight under pressure or simply use it to get other characters off of her
Hp item drop can do all of those things save for the last one and pw is one of the best assist callers in the game since she spends so much time in the air… Combine the 2 and you get a character that is flying above your head on the other side of the screen calling out hp heat seeking item drops all day long… from a Relatively safe position…and pw can also use this assist for help in crossups and resets as well as pseudo lockdown… And the assist can be spammed if peacock doesnt get hit.
So far i think this is the strongest assist for pw that ive yet found.
Unfortunately pw doesnt help peacock out much (at least not so far) but her mp fireball can help to create really good asssit crossups since its so slow and can also be used to put even more fireballs on the screen… Not the greatest thing on earth… But not that bad either.
I think the best way to think of this shell is kinda like umvc3 sent with a vajra assist… Only not bad…
There really isnt any getting away from painwheel when shes got an item drop behind her.
This isntnthe bestbthing in the game… But it seems to have promise.
… Well some general insights:
This game is COUNTER BASED… Way to many of my games that ve played have shown that to be true… For instance the counter to solo teams is lockdown assists… Solos cant ac out of them so they takemthe lockdown mixups on the chin and a good lockdown strategy can see solos just get whoopee stupid bad, the onoy saving grace being random supers and lvl 3 mashes which will perhaps win some games but still leave the overall match badly in favor of teams.
Counter to painwheel is peacocks hp item drop and bellas excelebella assists… Item drop cant be juked by flying pw unless shes moving forward and pws moves are bad at air to air… So call item drop and jump at pw while shes flying and the character doesnt have much she can do.
Counter to double assist is point valentine.
Counter to keepaway peacock is a better peacock as well as hk egret (bike) as an assist… Very hard for peacock to deal with.
Counter to parasoul is a good aerial reset character (works well against double,peacock and bella as well)
Playing the game as if it is counter based has served me extremely well.
Solos can push block guard cancel now, potentially into a dead point and assist character with their damage modifiers. You have to stop looking at solos as helpless vs lock down assists with pbgc in the game now.
Good point, but its a very small point, solos can still be high/low mixed while recovering from pushblock and left/right mixed to mess with their pbgc input, post pushblock recovery… Though it will probably be painwheel who is able to do that most efficiently…
But as i said, its a good point. So solos are only 90% free to lockdowns instead of 100% free to them… Having an option is better than none though.
Im thinking that the counter to val is pillar or updo…
Both seem to put a hell of a cramp on vals offense and make her think.
Im also starting to think that with the new team that i run that painwheel might be A+ tier… Perhaps even s-tier.
I cant think of a better for pw than pw/peacock/filia and i think the only team that is going to give that team hella problems is peacock/filia.
The team i use for pw now gives pw:
A gtfo assist in filia to help pw in matchups where people want to spam those super high priority jumpins.
A projectile assist that heat seeks, does good chip, and locks down.
Not only that, but painwheels resets get a hell of a lot more stupid with an invincible assist since if i expect a mashed super or mashed tag or mashed tech…i just call my invincible assist to blow up most of that.
Im thinking that the peacock/filia shell might be the best overall “anchor shell” in the entire game. Match vids and other analysis are what give me that view, for instance i didnt like ncv’s team in the media thread cause though it did have a good counter to val… Once painwheel was done it was a wrap.
The peacock/filia shell however is anchored by a ridiculous reset character that can use excessive amounts of meter. And of course has a ridiculous anchor shell.
Well ill be playing this team to see what counters people can come up with but in theory and in actual play it seems quite strong, strongest team ive had access to so far imho.
Don’t know about that exactly.
PB, crouch… have absolute guard until your pushblock ends, reversal.
Or likewise, crouch PB, stand… have absolute guard until your pushblock ends, reversal.
Mixing up left and right is pretty much the only way around it, but pressure is more easily done in the corner, and without attacks that pull the opponent in and out of the corner, you can’t cross them up in the corner. Painwheel could off of cancelling s.HK into fly, but that’s risky as hell, and only pulls in on hit.
What did you have in mind?
If there is absolute guard while in pushblock its news to me… Seems pretty dumb, not like something mike would want… But hmm… Maybe i guess.
The only absolute guard that i know of is during hitstop of a high or low which is there specifically to protect against unblockables.
If it applies to pushblock as well then ive learned something new.
Solo vs Team is not as simple as “lockdown wins”. It is definately effective against solos, but there are other things to consider such as the chip damage advantage, trading damage during footsies, and the psychological effect of each mistake for the duo or trio costing a large chunk of health.
^^
Yep, plus the only way to really do chunks of damage with teams (extended combos) gives the solo what he needs to TOD your point on the first mistake (meter), then the rest of your team on incoming.
And yeah, absolute guard is the secret guard tech that Mike was hinting at, pretty much makes high/low off of lock down assists useless if the defender can use it well enough. So, there goes the major weakness of solo vs team.
I could’ve sworn that was the mystery pushblock change Mike had kept secret.
Apparently this comes from old VS games, before MvC3. When you pushblock, during the duration of the pushblock your block is maintained (until the end when you return to neutral for PBGC). However, even when your block is maintained, if you ADD a block, both blocks are kept for the duration of the pushblock. Mike would want it because it was in every VS game and he mentioned that the absence of it is what makes Marvel 3 so difficult to guard.
Say I’m stand blocking a Cerecopter assist and pushblock it. If I crouch block still in pushblock, now both blocks are done for the entirety of the pushblock. Absolute guard.
Where were you when all that crap exploded?
This was even frontpaged.
[media=youtube]lTc4VyjZBaQ[/media]
I missed where it had absolute guard… Or i forgot. I only remember it being a way to go into neutral then use a reversal.
Whoa, this makes parasoul even worse… The only really good thing about the character to me was her high/low in lockdown.
But yeah, this DOES seem to give solos a fighting chance… only thing needed was a broken mechanic… Wow i must say that to me its a shit change… It wont affect me almost at all since i dont generally use lockdowns and instead use low/throw… Any absolute guard mevh just puts a bad taste in my mouth, very surprised it wouldnt to mike as well, whether or not it has rules is immaterial…
But, hmmm, yes ive learned something here… My team is even better than i thought, as an example.
Still the pbgc can be baited like anything else… But…hmmm… Bad taste in mouth.
She still has high/low/back throw xx RC soldier for the follow-ups off of grabs. Also, the potential high/low after absolute guard anyway, with her command normal overhead chains. I doubt you can just mash on push block and constantly remain in absolute guard.
Parasoul/Double still numba 1
…er no, low/throw doesnt work on a character in blockstun… Remember the conversation we are having.
She has to wait till the opponent comes out of blockstun before going for low/throw… Which means being susceptible to reversals. Pre patch solos had to take lockdown mixups honestly.
Doing a chain into sweep isnt a concern. Doing a chain into high gets blown up by reversal. As does the sweep. Doing frame trap style timings to throw off timings is how it would probably be countered in game.
The problem is that the absolute guard allows for immunity from the first high/low… Just wait for the timing of the high to be about to hit you… (While crouch blocking) then pbgc and go to high block… This will block all lows and highs since lows are faster the initial crouch block blocks them, since the high is slower you can always wait a bit before blocking high. So there is now a timing option select there whereas there wasnt before. It makes parasouls high/low damn near useless in theory when doing it from a lockdown.
Ot wont actually be useless of course, there is still tough execution plus if the opponent had already used there pushblock lockdown it could mess with the timing.
Well, actually, perhaps parasoul could chain 2 overheads in a row… Should be slow enough to get passed the pbgc timing though of course completely susceptible to reversal if they choose to do it…
Yeah sorry, i see this as a nerf to parasoul, no way i couldnt see it that way. Which is a shame cause i never thought she was the most powerful character in the world… Tough i shouldnt give a crap since it doesnt do anything to my game personally…pali should be worried…
It nerfs her just as much as any character.
Parasoul is still very stronger and actually picked up more resets and ambiguous setups from the patch.
People only ever talk about Parasouls High lows, never about her left/rights…
NaziMonster
This sounds like grab nerfs = PW specific nerfs all over again.
How does it nerf her as much as any other character? I dont use high/low from lockdown with painwheel nor do i use it with double or peacock… I dont see how it nerfs them as much as parasoul… Every high/low i do with painwheel isnt from lockdown… I dont need lockdown with painwheel, nor do i need it with double… Low/throw does pretty damn well… Perhaps parasoul will become a low/throw charcter as well… But her throw range being like half what painwheels and doubles are… Doesnt seem like it would be super powerful with her.
Also… What pre hit left/rits with parasoul? I would have thought it was obvious that we were talking about non reset mixups.
I know of no parasoul left/rights that arent simple call assist and jump/super jump over opponent which every character has in one fashion or another.
Now if she as eady ways to set ts up then… Ok… But she seems average at best from what i know… Care to educate me on why im wrong?
There is a difference between nerfing a character and nerfing one person’s method of playing that character. Painwheel has some cool high/low stuff regardless of whether you personally use it. In the same respect, Parasoul’s game does not boil down to lockdown then high/low, she has strong zoning, team utility, and is quite capable of using left/rights with her j.d+MK, j.MK and j.b+LK. Since neither she nor anybody else in the cast are limited to using high/low to be effective, it is an exaggeration to say that it is a nerf to a specific character or characters.
Whether or not the absolute guard actually does ‘nerf’ lockdown+high/low is another discussion which would probably be better suited in the gameplay discussion thread.