The Fatal Fury Real Bout 2 Thread

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421

I have to tell you all something about God 2.0.

He’s not a good god.

He’s a angry, vengeful god.

He threatened to throw lightning bolts at the feet of my sweet ol’ mother unless I played his dastardly game:

The Cheng Mirror aka Balls of the Fat Man.

I’m P1 (Blue / Yellow) and God 2.0 is P2 (Green / White).

And then, to illustrate the profound depths of his cold, bitter, spiteful heart…
he then inflicts his [media=youtube]2xt0I7GrJKw"]divine punishment[/COLOR[/media] upon me!

[COLOR="#ffa500"]"My eyes!! They burn!!!

By [media=youtube]a2i77YEMQrQ"]Sondra Prill’s wretched windpipes[/COLOR[/media], you shall pay for this, God 2.0!

And onto other news! For those among you who still have eyes and ears after those other links, here’s a link to the set of [COLOR="#ffa500"]**Soh85’s videos that Josh mentioned earlier. ** Thanks for the heads up! :tup:

422

Those cheng matches were hella random… haha so much rolly attack. Just block low! and punish. pretty funny I guess. I had never seen that cheng bouncey chain… How come neither of you ever did the combo into sweep? It’s knockdown plus if you throw a projectile afterwards you can actually use it to setup for the sneeze or if they techroll they get hit by the projectile and you can combo.

423

As for me, I never ever use Cheng.

Ever.

The problem with that wakeup is that the opponent could roll into the backplane and attack, or even slip under the fireball and hit Cheng if they’re fast enough, and Cheng can be open to a world of hurt if the sneeze is whiffed, blocked, or breakshotted.

The first hit of the bouncy attack is an overhead and the rest are low. If all the hits connect, it’s about a good 30% or so damage. It can only be done following a lineshifting attack, though.

424

turkish starwars. i always disliked starwars, and being a turk wont make a like a turkish version more than id like the US version. both suck. so why the vid? and pump up the jam? i think you fucked up with some links biggy.

and josh, i have a request of you. ive been playing this game for 10 years now and think i pretty much knew most of it already back in 98/99. im still relearning old stuff i used to know, but there are things i have no answer on. and that my friend, is were you come in. my request is that you do a frame rate thing on yamazaki (my man).

i already know almost everything that is to be known about yamazaki, damn i gotta go. ill ask for the rest later on today.

425

Well, guys, this looks like a good time to point out that I finished Cheng’s frame data - same post as the last few.

Not many surprises…except that the sneeze is actually +8 on block!

Musolini: Big was just joking with those vid links - he hates fighting against Cheng, much less playing him, so this is supposed to show how painful this was for him.

And if you want it, you’ll get it - Yamazaki will be next in line! =) This will be in a new post - I figure 4 characters is a good amount for each one.

Later everyone,
Josh

426

hmmm if you do the fireball right I’ve never seen anyone slip under it… can you tech roll line shift? if so I did not know that. And yeah the sneeze is just one of the follow up options, you can also do things like the overhead or his forced line shift… or whatever. As for the bouncy attack thats why I’ve never seen it, I am bad at incorporating lineshift attacks.

427

The one thing I like doing with cheng that neither of you did in those vids, is to roll at the sweet spot, land just short of you, and Grab (The old SF2 Blanka trick) It’s really hard to guard against, and with no throw breaks, and two throws to choose direction, it’s useful as well

428

God 2.0 actually does that to me a lot, interesting that it didn’t appear here.

You tech roll into the backplane with up+D - vulnerable to standing D attacks, so you don’t see Japan use it a whole lot.

And my plan for the next frame post is all higher-tier guys I didn’t get to yet - Yama, Geese, Kim, & Hon-Fu.

429

I understand your misery and all…

But that mess made my day. Seriously, I should give you a medal for salvaging this tuesday with that hilarity.

430

Well then, it’s time to start this mutha!

RYUJI YAMAZAKI:

Far A: 7f, +0 on block, +4 on hit
-> C: -11 on block, -7 on hit
-> f+C: -10 on block
-> d+C: -7 on block
-> d/f+C: -8 on block
Far B: 8f, -4 on block, +0 on hit
-> C: -6 on block
-> d+C: Same as A-d+C
-> d/f+C: Same as A-d/f+C
Far C: 10f, -9 on block, -3 on hit
Close A: 7f, +0 on block, +4 on hit
-> Same strings as Far A
Close B: 8f, -4 on block, +0 on hit
-> Same strings as Far B
Close C: 7f, -7 on block, -1 on hit
Crouching A: 6f, +0 on block, +4 on hit
Crouching B: 8f, -4 on block, +0 on hit
Crouching C: 10f, -7 on block
Jumping A: 7f
Jumping B: 9f
Jumping C: 11f
Hopping C: 10f
A+B: 10f, -7 on block, -1 on hit
Standing D: 11f, -2 on block, +1 on hit
Crouching D: 16f, +1 on block
Backplane A: 23f, +0 on block, +2 on hit
Backplane B: 22f, -1 on block, +1 on hit
Backplane C: 26f, -3 on block
f+A: 15f on a standing opponent, 23f on a crouching opponent, +1 on block, +7 on hit
-> C: -6 on block
d/f+A: 4f, +0 on block, +6 on hit
-> C: -10 on block, -6 on hit
-> C -> C: -12 on block
Jumping B+C: 5f
Tap C while downed: 23f, -23 on block

qcb+A: 8-10f depending on distance, -15 on block, -9 on hit
-> D: input after holding A for 4f, has 12f recovery
qcb+B: 8-10f depending on distance, -13 on block, -7 on hit
-> D: input after holding B for 4f, has 5f recovery
qcb+C: 13-15f depending on distance, -13 on block, -7 on hit
-> D: input after holding C for 7f, has 12f recovery
qcb+hold A/B/C until he speaks for the third time: 11f, -27 to -19 on block
dp+A: 11f, -11 on block
qcf+C: 9f, -16 on block, -10 on hit
-> Hold C after using on a projectile: 22f total
dp+B: 32f, -8 on block
f,b,d,u+C: 1f
hcf+B: 8f
d,d+C: 10f, only connects on downed opponents

f,hcf+B+C: 14-50f depending on distance, -23 on block

360+C: 1f

f+A+C: 18f

NOTES: As you can see, his qcb+B cancel is quicker than any feint in the game - can be as fast as 9f, and there’s some leeway where it’s still useful. Gives him big frame advantage from anything except light attacks, allows him to pressure after knocking the opponent into the backplane, and creates extra combo possibilities.

Also, his d/f+A is arguably the best normal in the game. It’s the fastest at 4f, it has sick frame data (especially when combined with the qcb+B cancel), it’s a usable anti-air, AND it has a followup that combos into the knife. Essentially, this move turns a -2 situation into a positive for you, as you will be able to beat or trade with the vast majority of jabs. Even against the quickest jabs, a -1 situation still allows you to do this.

GEESE HOWARD:

Far A: 6f, +0 on block, +4 on hit
-> B: -4 on block, +0 on hit
-> B -> C: -7 on block, +0 on hit
-> B -> d+C: -7 on block
Far B: 8f, -4 on block, +0 on hit
Far C: 13f, -15 on block, -9 on hit
Close A: 6f, +0 on block, +4 on hit
-> Same strings as Far A
Close B: 8f, -4 on block, +0 on hit
-> C: -7 on block, -1 on hit
Close C: 9f, -6 on block, +0 on hit
Crouching A: 6f, +0 on block, +4 on hit
-> C: -7 on block, -1 on hit
-> d+C: -7 on block, -1 on hit
Crouching B: 7f, -4 on block, +0 on hit
-> d+B: -4 on block, +0 on hit
-> d+B -> d+C: -7 on block
-> d+B -> d/f+C: -4 on block
Crouching C: 9f, -10 on block
Jumping A: 7f
Jumping B: 7f
Jumping C: 10f
Neutral Jumping/Hopping A: 6f
Hopping C: 9f
A+B: 9f, -3 on block, +3 on hit
Standing D: 6f, +1 on block, +4 on hit
Crouching D: 6f, +1 on block
Backplane A: 25f, +0 on block, +2 on hit
Backplane B: 24f, -1 on block, +1 on hit
Backplane C: 26f, -3 on block
d/f+A: 9f, +1 on block, +7 on hit
-> d+C: Same as d+B-d+B-d+C
-> C: -20 on block
-> C -> d+C: Completely whiffs if string is blocked
f+A: 31f, -7 on block, -1 on hit
-> C: -3 on block, +3 on hit
-> C -> 360+A: Frames don’t matter, but this must be input right as the C hits
b+B: 23f, +7 on block
-> D: +0 on block, +4 on hit
-> d+D: +0 on block
Dashing Far B: 8f, -4 on block, +0 on hit
Dashing Far C: 13f, -15 on block, -9 on hit
d+C on downed opponent: 1f

qcb+A: 18f, -6 or better on block, -4 or better on hit
qcb+C: 21f for first hit, 42f if first hit whiffs, -6 or better on block, -4 or better on hit
hcf+A: 1f
hcf+B: 1f
hcf+C: 1f
360+A: 1f

f,hcf+B+C: 33f, -27 on block

360+C: 1f
hcb,f+A: 4-26f depending on distance, -6 on block, +0 on hit
-> A: -1 on hit
-> A -> A: +0 on hit
-> A -> A -> B: -5 on hit
-> A -> A -> B -> B: +0 on hit
-> A -> A -> B -> B -> B: +0 on hit
-> A -> A -> B -> B -> B -> C: +9 on hit
-> A -> A -> B -> B -> B -> C -> C: +0 on hit
-> A -> A -> B -> B -> B -> C -> C -> C: +0 on hit
-> A -> A -> B -> B -> B -> C -> C -> C -> qcb+C: Knocks down, guaranteed pursuit

d+A+C: 22f
d+B+C: 19f

NOTES: Besides its role in combos, the feint gives him a few extra + frames on heavy attacks. This still isn’t enough to give him an advantage from, say, his sweep, but it leaves you safe at least.

And the Deadly Rave, at a mere 4 frames, is able to punish many moves that are usually safe. The 3-D fighter-style buffering in this game makes it rather easy to do, so practice. And remember, it is also a breakshot even though the FAQ doesn’t say that!

KIM KAPHWAN:

Far A: 6f, +0 on block, +4 on hit
-> A: -8 on block, -4 on hit
-> A -> C: -11 on block
-> A -> B: -8 on block, -4 on hit
-> A -> B -> C: -16 on block, -10 on hit
-> B: -12 on block, -8 on hit
-> B -> C: Same as A-A-C
-> f+B: 28f, -9 on block, -3 on hit
Far B: 7f, -6 on block, -2 on hit
-> f+B: Same as A-f+B
Far C: 10f, -16 on block, -10 on hit
Close A: 5f, +0 on block, +0 on hit
-> Same strings as Far A
Close B: 7f, -3 on block, +1 on hit
-> f+B: Same as A-f+B
Close C: 9f, -3 on block, +3 on hit
-> A: -7 on block, -1 on hit
-> A -> B: -11 on block
-> A -> B -> C: Always whiffs if string is blocked
Crouching A: 6f, +0 on block, +4 on hit
-> f+B: Same as A-f+B
-> Chains into Standing A and its strings
Crouching B: 7f, -5 on block, -1 on hit
-> f+B: Same as A-f+B
Crouching C: 9f, -6 on block
Jumping A: 6f
Jumping B: 6f
Jumping C: 9f
Neutral Jumping B: 7f
A+B: 9f, -15 on block, -9 on hit
Standing D: 11f, +8 on block, +11 on hit
Crouching D: 8f, +8 on block
Backplane A: 25f, +0 on block, +2 on hit
Backplane B: 23f, -1 on block, +1 on hit
Backplane C: 24f, -4 on block, +11 on hit
f+B: 19f, -9 on block, -3 on hit
Dashing d/f+A: 6f, +0 on block, +4 on hit
Dashing Far C: 10f, -16 on block, -10 on hit

qcb+B: 10-16f depending on distance, -6 on block, +0 on hit
qcb+C: 19-27f depending on distance, -10 on block
Charge d,u+A: Charge time = 30f, startup = 5f, -32 on block
-> d+A: Frames don’t matter since this only works on hit.
Charge d,u+B: Charge time = 30f, startup = 7f, -33 on block
d,d+B: 16f, +8 on block, +14 on hit
d+B in air: 9-10f depending on distance, -3 on block, +3 on hit
-> d/f+B: -15 on block

hcf+B+C in air: 15-17f depending on distance, -9 to +5 on block

qcb,d/b,f+C: 3-21f depending on distance, -6 to +9 on block

d+B+C: 19f

NOTES: You’ll most commonly get -4 to -6 or so when the P-Power is blocked - you need to be at long range to get advantage from it. Likewise, it is uncommon to get advantage from a blocked S-Power.

And at 3 frames, that super is tied with Mai’s P-Power for the fastest non-grab in the game - can punish all sorts of things you wouldn’t guess. If you’re unsure, look at the data!

HON-FU:

Far A: 5-6f depending on distance, -1 to +0 on block, +3 to +4 on hit
-> C: -8 on block, -2 on hit
Far B: 7f, -6 on block, -2 on hit
-> B: -20 to -13 on block, -16 to -9 on hit
-> B -> C: 17f, +3 to +5 on block, +7 to +9 on hit
Far C: 9f, -11 on block, -5 on hit
Close A: 6f, +0 on block, +4 on hit
-> B: -3 on block, +1 on hit
-> B -> C: -8 on block, -1 on hit
-> B -> f+C: -7 on block
-> B -> d+C: -3 on block
-> B -> d/f+C: -7 on block
-> d+B: -3 on block, +1 on hit
-> d+B -> d+C: Same as A-B-d+C
-> d+B -> d/f+C: Same as A-B-d/f+C
-> C: -4 on block, +2 on hit
-> C -> C: -6 on block, +0 on hit
Close B: 8f, -4 on block, +0 on hit
-> Same strings as Close A except that Close B-C doesn’t work
Close C: 9f, -3 on block, +3 on hit
Crouching A: 6f, +0 on block, +4 on hit
-> Same strings as Close A except that d+A-C doesn’t work, and there’s one extra:
-> d+C: -11 on block, -5 on hit
Crouching B: 7f, -3 on block, +1 on hit
-> Same strings as Crouching A
Crouching C: 9f, -3 on block
Jumping A: 6f
Jumping B: 7f
Jumping C: 9f
Neutral Jumping A: 6f
Neutral Jumping B: 7f
Neutral Jumping C: 9f
Hopping C: 12f
A+B: 14f, -8 on block, -2 on hit
Standing D: 8f, +4 on block, +7 on hit
Crouching D: 12f, +4 on block
Backplane A: 25f, +1 on block, +3 on hit
Backplane B: 24f, -1 on block, +1 on hit
Backplane C: 24f, -3 on block, +12 on hit
d/f+A: 7f, -11 on block, -5 on hit
-> d+C: Same as A-B-d+C
-> C: -7 on block
-> C -> C: -10 on block
f+B: 15f, -3 on block, +3 on hit
-> d/f+C: -8 on block, -2 on hit
Dashing Far C: 9f, -11 on block, -5 on hit

dp+A: 13f, -7 on block, -1 on hit
dp+C: 13f, -28 on block, -22 on hit
qcb+A: 17f, -29 on block, -24 on hit
-> Tap A repeatedly: -13 on block
qcb+B: 28-35f depending on distance, +1 on block, +7 on hit
Charge d/b,f+B: Charge time = 30f, startup = 9-36f depending on distance, -33 to -7 on block, -27 to -1 on hit
-> B: -17 on block
hcf+C: 7f, -3 on block
qcb+C: 5f

qcb,d/b,f+B+C: 15f, -34 on block

qcb,d/b,f+C: 27f for first hit, 52f total if first hit whiffs, -56 on block

b+A+C: 16f

NOTES: Hon’s feint is the 2nd fastest in the game, so make good use of it in your combos & pressure. It gives him an extra +6 on heavy attacks!

Far B-B-C is an awesome string, as you can see from the data. Opponents can reversal before the C hits, but the window is very small.

His S-Power actually has a gap before the last two hits; you can line shift or use an extremely fast attack. Usually kinda pointless since the move has so much recovery anyway, but you could dodge a chip-damage kill once in a blue moon with this.

-Josh

431

Discovered this by mistake today- Chonrei can karacancel his fwd+B. Not much use for it yet- maybe extending range on elbow perhaps.

432

thanx a lot josh. so it should be possible to check out if some combos are possible or not right? this yamazaki combo that ive seen in a vid keeps on bothering me as i tried it and i don’t think it should be possible. a corner combo for yamazaki.
jump and :snkb: then :snkc: quickly dash and do his standing :snkc: (2 hits) :r: + :snka: + :snkc: to feint, :snkb:, :snkc:, :r: + :snka: + :snkc: to feint again, :snkd: into his judgement dagger thus :dp: + :snka: and finish it with a pursuit.

now for the problems of the combo. the first feint shouldn’t make it possible to hit the :snkb: as you should be out of reach and i don’t think hes fast enough to follow up to actually combo it. and with the second feint. after hitting your opponent in the background with the :snkb: :snkc: chain, feinting and then doing his :snkd: into the judgement dagger doesn’t look fast enough to combo, actually im pretty sure about it. thats why i think it can be proved with the frame fate data as you can actually see whats possible and what isn’t. i just don’t think you can hit you opponent in the bg, cancel it (feint) and still hit the back from the bg and still combo. either i suck or the guy in the vid (rai) has some seriously godly skillz.

edit: just checked to yama list out. so maybe it is possible if you do a qcb + B after hitting the opponent into the bg and cancel it out with D and still make it combo with the D to hit them back from the bg again. if its not too much trouble could you check it out for me. thanx in advance josh. ima try it on the ps2 soon enough, but its 6.15 in the morning so i dont know how long ill be awake. otherwise, tomorrow.

433

Glad my suffering was able to bring at least one person joy. :rofl: Hehe, really though, I’m glad it brightened your day up a bit, TtD. :bgrin:

And I see that Josh covered Ross’ question the lineshifting roll. It is useful on occassion, but definitely something you don’t want to use all the time. Interestingly, it’s better for some chars than others (the Jins have a great one, since the teleport, while Sokaku’s is pretty slow [shocking that it’s still faster than it used to be.])

I happened across these on Soh85’s page, and man [media=youtube]IHJ2PTwZbGw"]this one and [URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A-ovyTjPO0"][COLOR="#ffa500”]that one[/COLOR[/media] are my kind of fighting! Does that Franco look familiar? :lovin: The Krauser looks a bit familiar, too! :wgrin: There’s some excellent Xiang-Fei, Chonrei, and Hon-Fu action as well. :tup:

434

Thank you too for the frame data, keep up the good work :china:

PS: 3 new match vids up

435

Since someone mention Cheng. As a Cheng user:razz: I have to say something.
no doubt it is hard to master him. My enjoyment of using this character are his annoying move, and the Lady walking out with her compliment on my win every time (I am such sad person:sweat:)
Below is my strategy(not random!?:wtf::wow::mad:). Sorry I m busy at the moment, so I would have to make it short. Assume that u are on the left side.

Defense:
first priority unless ur opponent play defensively or running out of time.
:db:charge for :d::u::snka:, :l::r::snkb:or:snkc:to counter fireball and antiair. U can do:qcb::snkb:(Hold)to cover your charge up.
When opponent are low jumping. :snkc::snkc:or:l::r::snkb:. Keep doing back and forward. Until u’ve found a good time to attack(or U want to play offensively ‘for a while’)
Offense:
Cheng’s jump:snkb:is solid. In close range with:db::snka:or:df::snka:to charge make ur opponent blocking. Then u have at least 6 choices(the mix up of 6 :smokin:I mostly used)
:snka:+:snkb:>:qcf::snka:only to combo opponent standing. :snkc::snkc:or:l::snka:>:r::snkb:are antiair, :l::snka:>:r::snkb:is equal to:l::r::snkb:. Since:r::snka:is overhead. If started up from:db::snka:>:r::snka:, then u can:r::snkb:karacancel:l::r::snkb:or just do d overhead without karacancel. If started up from :df::snka:>:r::snka:, then u can:db::snkc:or:df::snkc:karacancel 'Dodge’or just do d overhead without karacancel.
mix up:qcb::snkc:and its fake move during combo can sometimes be rewardable.
Knock down oppoent >:dp::snka:for set up is not too effective but good for meter boost up. :dp::snka:>:qcf::snka:or:dp::snka:again or even s.power (if ur opponent is so ‘smart’ not to shift line)

at last but not the least, Cheng doesn’t have enough space to move in the corner is his biggest disadvantage. Meanwhile trying everything seems like escaping or useless but also filling the meter bar. Cheng’s :l::r::snkb:is the No.1 annoying breakshot voted by Japanese. So abuse it especially Cheng’s S.power won’t use frequently(I don’t even use it:arazz:). Please be patient with Cheng, cause you need it.

436

His breakshot can be punished on hit in the corner if I remember right(I might not be)…

Still decent breakshot, though I have had it blocked after doing it on strings I thought were pretty laggy. Its one bonus is its easy and it hits low.

437

:r: + :snka: is the overhead. :l: + :snka: is an attack that knocks the opponent to the back round in which you can hit them back with :snkd: and link it into a special, personally i usually use the :l: :r: + :snkb:.

438

Couple things I noticed from those Japanese matches:

  • Rick can start the f+A overhead, then kara-cancel to qcb+B and cancel that into the crouching B-C combo. Looks really weird, but damned cool.

  • Hon-Fu’s feint may be even quicker than Franco’s. I see some people just play a straight turtle game with him, but that’s nowhere near his full potential - the jab DP and roll breakshot are awesome, yes, but he can also rush you down hard. Japan really shows why he’s high-tier!

  • You can breakshot with the “charge d/b” moves after blocking high. Not sure if there’s any trick to it or what, but you can see Franco & Hon-Fu make use of this in the ranbats.

  • Chonrei has great throw setups with the roll, and it also helps him pressure after knocking the opponent into the backplane. That S-Power gives him a downright sick corner game and is great for general zoning - I almost wonder if he isn’t another character who goes up a tier when he’s below 50%.

  • The Zapper gives Franco frame advantage from mid-range, which is why you see these players use it after knockdowns. Ghostpilot, take notes! Also look at the Barom Punch -> Waving Blow kara cancel. =)

Also, I had thought my throw frame data might be incorrect, and tested it once more. It turns out that all normal & command throws are 0 frames and can be used as reversals!

Additionally, Geese’s Deadly Rave is actually 4 frames, not 3. And I’m going to add the worst-case-scenario frame data for projectiles.

Later,
Josh.

EDIT: Kim data is complete!

439

i got run downed by deadly neowave.It was pretty good experience considering the first time played against people online.Once I download the program I’ll start to play more.I’m still in the process of working on ggpo everything seems to be working smoothly at the moment.Still working franco mr.big.I might just have to learn krauser.

440

I hadn’t thought of doing that before (but Rick isn’t one of my mains. :sweat:), I’d worry about the amount of frames that could add, but it could be a good idea! :tup:

Most definitely! Hon-Fu has one of the most dangerous fients in the game (up there with Terry’s and Geese’s), because not only is it fast, but it’s convincing and it’s for his scariest move: the Sky of Fire. But aside from videos, all the Hon-Fu’s I’ve encountered mostly turtle up with the S.o.F., and he has so much more potential than that.

Sometimes the best defense is a good offense: don’t wait for someone to wander into the Sky of Fire, because of two reasons:

  1. Hon’s not a zoner. And aside from the Sky of Fire, he has few defensive options. Hon’s all about offense. He loses a lot of damage potential when outside of sweep range.

Use the threat of it to shut their plans down. If they eat a couple S.o.F.'s, they will start thinking twice before doing a lot of things, giving you plenty of opportunities to maintain an offensive.

:nunchuck:: “Get in the corner!”
:annoy:: “Kiss my–”
:nunchuck:: “Sky of Fire!”
:crybaby:: “It burns!”
:nunchuck:: “I said, get in the corner!”
:mad:: “Fuc–”
:nunchuck:: “Sky of–” feint!
:bluu:: “Okay! I’m goin’! I’m goin’!”

  1. Anyone who knows better is going to play a lot more carefully and try to bait you into using the S.o.F. which is far, far easier for them to do if you’re hanging back and waiting for them to jump into it. Remember:

The better the anti-air, the more likely they are to use it. The more likely they are to use it, the easier it is to bait.

Thus turning Hon’s greatest strength into a weakness. :sad:

Oh you can. I’ve seen Kim’s and Terry’s breakshot :d:,:u:'s after blocking an attack high. Certainly not an easy thing to do. But in that situation, as well as Franco’s / Hon-Fu’s, there’s not a huge reason to do it.

In the case of Kim / Terry (and etc.), their :d:,:u: specials already have a ton of invincibility, so why burn meter to breakshot an air attack that they could’ve beaten anyway?

And for Franco and Hon, they actually have better breakshots (Hon’s Sky of Fire, and Franco’s Double Kong / Gut’s Dunk). If either :db: charge hits an opponent who’s off the ground, the moves won’t land properly and because of the recovery, they’ll get eaten up. In addition to that, Franco’s Golden Bomber (did extensive testing on this with God 2.0), can easily be stuffed if BS’ed into a flurry, or guarded against moves with frame advantage. Not to say that it doesn’t have it’s uses, but it’s definitely not what you’d call an all-purpose breakshot.

He does have some excellent setups he can do with the command roll, just have to be careful against low attacks / throws. Mmm, I’d agree with you about the S-Power thing, except there are two factors to worry about:

The multi-fireball, even though it is technically an S-Power, takes about 25% of your meter per fireball whether you are at <50% or not.
I.e. If you have 55% of a meter, you’ll only be able to throw two fireballs. It’s the only S-Power in the game that can keep you from a P-Power by using it. While I can understand that they did that to keep people from spamming his fireballs all day (in which case, he would jump up a tier or two at <50% life), it certainly doesn’t help him. :shake:

And as for the delayed blast fireball, there’s no guaranteed setups for it, and if the opponent is off the ground for any reason, it will only hit once and they’ll be able to block the rest. :bluu:

The reason for this is that all of his supers are dependent on the opponent making a mistake, while Chonshu has few ways of forcing that mistake.

He doesn’t have the “oh shit” factor of a Break Spiral, Kaiser Wave, Raging Storm, etc. at <50% life.

Really? It already had less frames that it appears, but I didn’t think it would ever give him a frame advantage. Mmm, I’ll have to start using that more, although I generally go for a Barom Punch to close the range / maintain pressure. Not to mention that his old-school Zapper totally spoiled me (which was a faster version of O. Chris’ Honoo). :sweat:

Oh, and as for the Barom Punch -> Waving Blow kara-cancel, I mentioned that a bunch of pages back. :wink: I don’t do it as often as I should because of habit and that I’m on a pad. As practiced as I am on that N64 pad, some things are a bit tricky / inconsistent when introduced to the slight frame delay of online play. Definitely something I will focus more on when / if I get a stick. :tup:

Good to have that confirmed! When I first heard that throws and command throws were thought to have frames, I was like “:wtf:…no…really?” :confused: Because it just didn’t seem that way to me. Handy to know that this isn’t the case. :woot:

That’s handy to know. :slight_smile: Gives me a wider window to jump, backdash, or sidestep God 2.0 when he goes for it. :rofl:

:angel::“Stop being in the air when I do my Deadly Rave!” fistshakes
:lol:: “No P-Power for you!”

As always, great work, Josh! :clap: