Awesome thanks for the heads up, I hadn’t read it going into the match, but I kind of got it eventually on my own. progress! Ironically, some of the vids posted in the vid section have addressed this very match-up and I have learned much from them.
Edit: a day later:
Got some matches under my belt not doing too bad, have 56.52% win rate but I haven’t been fighting great great competition.
I fought my first Gief! And won a round lol the other 2 came down to the wire though but I lost so hilariously, he EX SPD…an Ex Wheel Kick…ON HIT!!! now is this lag…or can he really just punish wheel kicks on hit like that? lol we both were at a sliver of life I won first round by breathlessing his whiffed ultra lol.
Also! Fought one of those crazy Oni players that seemed to have lag on his side lol need help there I ran it back a few times and did better but he would still best me. It seemed he was hard to punish for some reason either it was lag or dudes recovery is ridiculous he would do random SRK’s land and before I could touch him SRK again lol I did step kick through his dumb cross up move though…
The gief match is one of my favorites as Abel. Best thing to do is f.st.lk for a footsie if you hit then frame trap a step kick. Also backdash and jump back hp. Using my phone, more stuff whenI get home. Plus some tips vs juri that you have been asking for.
Not gonna lie I enjoy fighting Gief a looooot as well the thinking involved on your end has to be up there, not as much for him though lol, Looking forward to Juri tips, Ibuki is annoying as hell too, but I’m getting better at thanks a to a friend who mains her.
How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice! Lol! Anyway the Gief match is exactly like you said. Abel is scary as hell at close range but Gief is scarier. Other than the above info watch for green hand whiffs, you can punish those. Even though I mentioned backdash and jump back in the above post do not corner yourself! Don’t sweep in footsies, he can SPD that… Let see… If you score a knockdown you can either go for your usual mix-up game or get the hell outta there and return to the neutral game. I usually get outta Dodge then occasionally I’ll try a mix-up if I’m confident and and have a decent life lead or major deficit lol. Both Ultras are good here but I actually use U1. I just prefer comboing into it for guaranteed vs trying to set up U2 or wait for a jump to punish. The basic thing to this match is to establish the life lead so you feel better about trying different things. Throw in a meaty TT on his wake-up if you feel you have him shaken by avoiding SPD set ups. Neutral jump if you know he is going to SPD then rock him for it :P. Respect Gief but don’t be afraid really. Use the high damage you can score from a combo to your advantage. I also only really use light Wheel Kick in this match, it minimizes the chance of getting punished, decent damage and you only have to learn one range. I will sometimes throw out an EX CoD during footsies if I’m getting too close to the corner to place him there or FADC U1 if I have the meter and the kill.
This is all kind of jumbled, Sorry.
Juri write up is next but I have to watch some matches I played in a long set the past two nights.
Cant believe you wrote a vs Gief guide without mentioning how good normal throw is vs him. Meaty throws beat everything he has except for ultra n super. Sweep is good too, can also use it as a tool to get in if you have the meter to fadc.
… and I think this has been written a thousand times before… (not pointin fingers blamin anyone or anythin…)
I’d assume the same way any meaty works. Have the first active frame overlap the durst of their wake up. I do use normal throw a bunch in this match anyway. So to revise, normal throw is gdlk so is sweep if you are willing to blow a FADC…
So I’ve been practicing online with Pills this past week and he’s enlightened me and taught me about Abel’s meaty setups in conjunction with his vortex. However, I’d say I’m a beginner when it comes to use of meaties on the opponent’s wakeup. For example, he used crouching strong on my wakeup to prevent me from jumping out.
My question is, if I am to use crouching strong on the opponent’s wakeup and they block, what do I do afterwards? What should be my gameplan? What should I be thinking when I go for a wakeup meaty?
cr strong if meatied as late as possible can net you a +2/3 situation. meaning u can continue pressure with step kick, wait and see what they do, frame trap, etc.
I feel my Abel is improving steadily got revenge on a Dudley and Ryu player that had previously manhandled me, I’m seeing things allot clearer now, fun times afoot!
please help! I have questions about that AMAAAAAZING abel guide:
the guide says that abel has a 6 frame overhead but… after looking at the frame data (because i didnt believe it) i found out that only active frames 5 and 6 can hit crouching oponents so that means that the real overhead part of the move has 10 frames startup and 2 active frames, right? also, standing heavy kick is -4 on block and 0 on hit on standing oponents but what about againt crouching oponents? i read in the guide that is +5 on hit but on block? i am asking this because that part of the guide is confusing
also i read in the guide that far standing light kick does 30 damage but in the frame data its 40 damage and ,after testing it, it does 40 damage
why is the step kick into dash on counterhit +8 on hit? i thought that a medium normal move gave you an adicional +3 frame advantage so if the step kick into dash on hit is +4, why is +8 on counterhit?
in the UKD Video + Chart part of the guide when i hit the link for the pdf file it sends me back to the same place so, what i am doing wrong?
at how much frame disadvantage abel is after a blocked heavy punch on crouching oponents (when the second hit misses)?
Thanks to everyone for your time.
and you’re correct,
if we were to look at the close overhead :hk: in terms of its overhead portion alone, then yes it in fact does come out** later** with** fewer active frames. 10/2** I suppose the guide could potentially be mistaken in claiming it to be the fastest overhead in the game.
Close :hk against a standing opponent
+0/-4
Against a Crouching opponent
+5/UB
2 Good eye! That will be fixed immediately
3 Good question! Yes it’s true that most medium/heavy normals gain +3 frame advantage on hit
Step kick is simply an exception. Perhaps Abel’s designers simply wanted to give Abel the ability to combo from a counter hit step kick directly into crouching :hp: :clapdos:
4 Oh! something must of gone wrong, I’ll look into this later.
5 Good question, I’m not sure myself. I’ll look into this
First, thanks to everyone who helped in that guide because its perfect for understating the characters… AMAZING WORK!
Again, about the standing heavy kick part of the guide: always that you use that move you want to hit the oponent with the overhead portion of the move (last two active frames), right? I have learn from the guide that the best and most common use of the move is to use it as a meaty on wakeup so, why saying that if the oponents blocks it you are at -4 frames? if you use it on wakeup and the oponent blocks it (as a meaty attack) the block animation of the move is diferent that the animation of the move blocked by a standing oponent as a non meaty attack (in the begining frames) and your frame disadvantage is less than for the non overhead standing heavy kick, right? When i tested that in training move, i recorded abel doing a setup so the standing heavy kick was an overhead and a meaty attack on wakeup. I was ryu and after blocking the overhead it seems that, if they block it in this situation, you are only at -2 frames (ken super could punish the overhead but codys crouching light kick couldnt) and also the distance between you and your oponent is a little bit more than if they block the standing heavy kick as a non overhead. Now (after they blocked in the situation above) you are save to almost any reversal and that doesnt matter that much because almost any reversal (so no chip damage) or non long range normal moves would miss in front of you (the reversals miss even more if you block high after doing the overhead because of your hitbox, of course) so you are at the perfect distance for punishing with standing far light kick or step kick.
I am just trying to understand abel better…
This is easy to test, I tested it on ver.2012 on a pc. Training mode, pick abel as first character agains anyone and do cl.hk against him while he is standing, then select him to crouch and do the cl.hk again and pay attention to the differences between the two animations (the st.hk hitting a standing or crouching oponent). Now pick cody (becuase he has a cr.lk with crazy range) as first character and abel as second. Select record and record abel doing a sweep canceled into a medium roll, do another medium roll, do cl.hk after AND block low right after for at least one second. Repeat that until you get the st.hk to hit cody with the overhead animation with abels kick hitting cody as low as posible, so you are not losing frames. Now as cody abel hits you with the sweep, you block the overhead and now you can try to punish abel with cr.lk (3 frames startup) all the times you want because abel should block it (i think so). Now go back to the select sreen and pick ken first and abel second, block the overhead and super (2 frames startup). You should hit abel. If you pick ryu first and use the super (1 frame startup) after blocking the overhead you should hit abel to.
But thats not what caught my attention. I personaly hate to take chip damage when blocking reversals (thats why i like abel roll). In the situation that i explained above if your oponent block the overhead your are save but if in stead of blocking low after the overhead you block high, becuase of the change on your hitbox, reversals and normals are going to miss even more (they already miss when you blocked low). As an example, in the situation that i mentioned before with cody if you record the setup but end it blocking high and if cody tryes to punish abel with cr.lk (supposedly he cant) after blocking the overhead, the c.lk should miss so abel can punish with step kick. If i am right, that seems a better situation after a blocked overhead than -4. Is funny that i have tested this just because after reading the abel guide and looking at his frame data i was like… that standing high kick is strange…
I guess the joke is on me
I guess it is possible to block the “overhead” portion of Abel’s overhead
6 active frames with the last 2 being the overhead portion
Being that there are 6th active frames, connecting the final active frame will give Abel a Net gain of +5 frames of advantage, connecting on the 5th gives him +4 more* Theoretically speaking.
So…
Being that Abel is -4 on a standing opponent
Connecting it on the final frame, netting him an extra +5 will result in Abel being +1, connecting on the 4th frame will make him +0
Which makes sense when we think about it.
If Normal Close Roundhouse is
0/-4
and an overhead is +5 on hit, it must mean that the move connects on its last frame.
The +5 frame of advantage Abel gets from an overhead is it from connecting on the 6th frame
which means, if it were to be blocked it makes sense that it would be the same as taking what he is regularly and adding +5
-4 + 5 = +1
So connecting on the first frame
0/-4
Connecting on the final frame
+5/+1
Training mode verifies this
Chun-li and Ken’s super, along with Zangief’s SPD can’t punish
Ironically, some of the vids posted in the vid section have addressed this very match-up and I have learned much from them.
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