With any combo in the game, you get 4 juggle states, and since the combo utilizes all Fierce moves, you can get 4 cr.HP after the first one and that’s the max.
Your combos aren’t optimal, I posted the optimal meterless bnb day -2 or something, but people don’t want to read
The Raven Thread I posted all my data on Raven combos there.
Raven’s best midscreen juggle after a float is definitely [cr.hp xx wind cross cancel]x2, cl.hp xx lk alter ego. This should be the way you end all of his combos. Literally. You can get that off a tag. Situationally you might end with [cr.hp xx wind cross cancel]x3, cr.hk for an untechable, but the cl.hp xx lk alter is max damage.
You can combo cr.hp after a midscreen wind cross but it’s a 1 frame juggle. I really don’t think it’s possible to combo off wind cross in the corner though. Currently I am doing the wind cross jab cr.hp xx wind cross cancel cl.hp xx lk alter in matches.
Raven’s best meterless damage should be j.hp cl.hp xx wind cross, [cr.hp xx wind cross cancel]x2, cl.hp xx lk alter ego.
All of raven’s combos should be just more cr.hp and wind cross cancel. It’s 1 hit that does 90 damage. You don’t need to do anyhing
having the wind dash cancel trouble myself, any other way to get around it?
Then link me to your post, I find it hard to believe your meterless combo does more damage than mine.
You can get another wind cross cancel off a tag and you can do raw cl.hp xx wind cross -> cr.hp to get another loop.
That isn’t optimal to me. Going for the 1 frame link off wind cross with cr hp also causes you to go behind the character. If you prefer making the links as hard as possible then go for it.
And off tag the same issue occurs. You are going to end up behind the character and make things all screwy. If you are ok with that then so be it. I don’t consider those situations optimal at all.
I just did it. It does 500 damage, so yes that is more optimal. But in terms of it being practical? Would you really risk going for that link in tournament play?
I consider myself to be pretty good at execution and it took me at least 10 tries to do that combo. It’s easy to end up going behind the character unless you perfectly pace everything.
no it doesn’t
no you aren’t, you can just learn the timing.
why are you so arrogant+wrong? It’s kind of ridiculous. Do you still think he doesn’t have aa’s too?(st.mk is upper body invincible)
So now my combo isn’t good because it’s hard?
And sure when I feel confident in it. It’s also easier against some characters than others, and I currently go for it vs. them.
How am I arrogant? It’s an opinion. Compare the above videos where people use ex shurikens for no reason in combos. My combos were far above and beyond more optimal. Now that you presented me with something that’s better I accepted that fact but then stated that it’s a much more difficult combo to do and it isn’t even really worth it for ME.
His AA in my opinion is decent at best. If you really want to compare it to other characters AA it’s relatively weak.
Ok guys, to be honest, linking c.hp after wind cross seems to be the way to in stepping up the raven game. If it is 1 frame, than it is 2 frames due to plink. In all games when we find 1 frame links that increase so much damage (130 in this case it seems?) we should practice it.
Now, what I think were missing here and I know this isnt the perfect thread since it is a combo only thread, is how the hell we get to get in opponent. Jump-ins and cross-ups may work on random dudes but it will not work on any decent player. I’ve been practicing some gameplay with him but i find it hard to have go-to options on attack. We should gather footsies, anti air and counter hits go-to`s in order to maximize our damage.
Also, we should start finding the best combo tools in dealing with tagging in and tagging out Raven independent of the second character.
Agreed but how often are we going to actually hit with a j.hp vs a decently smart opponent? Raven has shit for lows… and the best options he has from lows are c.lk > s.lp > w/e or c.lk xx s.mp xx s.hp > EX shuriken > blah blah blah which can’t normally break 400 damage reliably. If you really want to scare someone you need a lot more mixups than just jumpins.
It really frustrates me that people always list combos starting with a jumping heavy attack. Also to everyone talking about optimizing things, if you can reliably hit a 1 frame link like its nothing then go ahead. People saying hit confirming s.lp > c.hp isn’t optimizing or practical then saying that it is practical to link it off a special that is also a 1 frame link? Just because something does more damage doesn’t make it more practical in a match. If you have the dedication to learn all your 1 frame links like c.lk > s.lp, wind cross > c.hp and s.lp > c.hp then obviously you’re going to be able to do more damage.
It works on a good majority of the cast but it is seemingly VERY inconsistent with big bodied characters like rufus. You cross under him close to 50% of the time almost no matter how long you wait/hold the windcross or delay the c.hp after the dash cancel… it’s not even an execution thing it is just plain random it seems.
Also you have been around since before SF4… you should know that scrubs like everything handed to them on a silver platter. Theres no need to berate other people though, those actions are no better than not reading all the information given on a subject before complaining about it.
That’s the funny part about it, I can actually get it to work on rufus, probably because my specific timing on the loops work for that character better… basically these loops off certain combos require different timing based on the hitbox of your opponent, which is why I was saying it’s not practical.
Think about the implications of plinking cr hp after a wind cross. If you miss the hp and get a random crouching mp, you can’t continue loops at all.
To be completely honest, I don’t even like doing cr. hp after a tag in. It leads to implications as well, because after the cr hp wind cross dash cancel you can end up in front or behind the enemy based on their hit box or your timing. It can lead to inconsistencies. You can say stuff about practicing all you want, but when it’s different based on almost every individual character I call that inconsistent. The only reason I approve of it is because the extra damage is worth it over the basic options, however, there are definitely issues with it.
To be honest I just practiced and I do not want to make any statement but i hit the second attempt and I`m actually nailing it really consistent.
But I’m testing the difference in the damages on standard combos after a cross up. Lets face it, we won’t be nailing jumpin combos all the time.
Cross Mk - Jab 2x - 5 C.hp Loop = 349
Cross Mk - Jab 2x - C.MK into st.HP followed by 2 c.hp loop into MK Alter ego : 340
Cross MK - Jab 2x C.MK straight into C.hp dash cancel C.hp MK Alter ego: 355
In this case, with only 9 points of damage I don’t think it is worth it to go to the c.hp loop all the way. Not sure if i can nail a sweep after the c.hp. Will keep testing damage and editing this message if the board lets me.
Now for the second example we have 15 points of damage. It is still just 15 points of damage so it will depend on the player to choose what is more viable. This is still day 3 of the game for me so i will only start using the max damage option in matches. If i can’t get to like 90% hit rate, than i’ll drop it for the easier link
Ok, managed to get like 2 minutes after this, so editing.
You basically are substituting a jab for a cr.fierce, it adds whatever that be in the scaling of the combo. Max bonus is 60 damage(raw windcross), minimum bonus is 6 damage, and that late in a combo it isn’t worth it to go for it. Anything after 70% or so scaling the risk:reward isn’t in your favor for the combo unless you are super good at it.
You don’t have to get in on anyone. You have great normal aa’s, super is a great aa, you have good footsie buttons, and a great projectile. Just play footsies.
I know people like stuff handed to them on a silver platter, it’s a really disgusting attitude for a competitive game.
He was trumping up his own stuff in comparison to vesper, but he’s doing his best to downplay my stuff, it’s funny.
Plink with cr.lp, so then you can continue if you miss the plink.
What else is there really to practice solo combo wise other than getting time down on loops? His metered options suck outside of low hitconfirming, and cr.hp loop does the most damage. Figuring out who everything works on and the timing should be the priority of every player who is trying to get better at comboing with this character. He has some hilarious impractical combos and some interesting stuff using ex, but it’s all meter inefficient for the most part so doing a combo that’s basically all fierces and special moves seems to be the bet.
Plinking is just a kara throw timing. Getting a mp would require me to not only mess up the timing of the cr.hp, but also to mess up the plink. That’s the point of plinking, you get two :hp: inputs on subsequent frames.
I have a suspicion the timing is exactly the same for every character. When I get a chance I’m going to record myself doing the combo, then do the recording on different characters. If it doesn’t drop, that should imply the timing is the same across characters, right?
Don’t put words in my mouth please. The numbers are for damage comparisons. Did I say “Raven does ridiculous damage?” No, he does really solid damage though. My combos also listed damage without j.hp. The j.hp is there so you can compare damage with and without a jump-in. Also landing a jump-in is not an impractical situation, it’s just a rare situation.
It’s not about practicality, it’s about damage. The damage difference is rather large. Yes, the easier combos are just as practical, but they’re not more practical. SF4 was land of the one frames. A single one in a combo doesn’t scare me.
You guys can do whatever combos you want. An optimal combo is always the best one you personally can do. But don’t say 1 frames aren’t practical. They are as long as they’re consistent.
And now you’re trumping up your own stuff in comparison to mine. How about we just agree to disagree?
I hold my opinion on the fact a lot of his loop situations are inconsistent and rather troublesome to perform. If you don’t mind the inconsistencies then you’re welcomed to that opinion. If you like doing ex stars just to do them, then go for it as well.
The truth is I didn’t down play you at all. I even accepted that yours were more optimal in terms of damage.
You’re not getting the full combos. You can wind cross, cr.hp xx wind cross cancel, cr.hp xx wind cross cancel, cl.hp xx lk alter ego. That’s the point, the jab stops you from doing that. Also you should be ending with cl.hp xx lk alter ego anyway instead of cr.hp xx mk alter ego.
You however keep saying it’s inconsistent… maybe you are just bad at cr.fierce loops?