I don’t see your point
maybe it’s not even there :rolleyes:
I never said anything about losing. You came into this thread and became hostile towards people who have said that Gouken is low tier but useable, pretty much what you have said about Viper.
There are the instances when you hit your opponent and the recovery results in you getting punished, that isn’t acceptable. Which could be fixed by making the move always “suck” in the opponent.
But there are also times when you use the move and it misses but pretty much no other moves in the game outside of Ultras would have been punishable by the opponent.
So we have a move that is extremely situational, can be punished ON HIT, and can be punished even when the opponent makes a mistake themselves when most other moves would leave both players neutral or pass the advantage to Gouken.
It’s a problem (and it is not) because Tatsu can drop people. You can successfully anti-air, have the last hit drop, and then get punished when you get back down.
The real problem is that regular tatsu, which is already slow as balls to start up, hittable and throwable, can drop people.
It’s just another solution to make the move itself useable. Truth be told, fixing the recovery is a bad option. The recovery would be faster no matter what and then when you successfully land a tatsu you would be on the ground while the other guy is still flying across the screen. I could see doing a HK demon flip when you land just to make the stage scroll and the guy loses almost two screens worth of real estate cause he gets blown back at the top of the screen.
A proper solution would just to make the move suck in like EX does. LK tatsu is the only one you can actually use for AA and it is a 7 frame startup. It does 120 damage. That’s not too much to ask imo. If you can actually AA someone with a 13 frame AA (HK tatsu) then congrats to you and you deserve the 185 damage.
Imagine AAing someone with an EX tiger Upper (only example I can think of that hits multiple times in the air), and after the first two hits the guy just falls straight down as you continue up and then you take 102 frames to come back down as he stands up and waits for you to come back down and punish you with an Ultra.
You are correct though, on whiff, the recovery is not a problem. If you whiff lp srk you get punished, whiff HP srk you get punished.
I’m not going to curse you out like Iam did, but if you think that is indicative of how that match is played and that Bonchan did anything remotely right in that matchup you are just as unfamiliar with the matchup as Bonchan was.
Better yet, stop taking our word for it, go in the Sagat forum and ask what they think. Ask Emblemlord if he thinks that was the right Ultra, if he should have been AAing with tiger upper, if sitting back and throwing fireballs with no TK pressure was the right thing to do, and if not using Angry scar was a good idea. Bonchan can be the greatest Sagat in the world but he did everything wrong, starting at the Ultra select - it reeks of unfamiliarity.
I agree that opponents falling out should be fixed. I’m pretty confident it’s a bug considering this also happens to Ryu, Akuma and Oni’s EX Tatsu.
I don’t completely understand your second point. In what situation is this occurring? If you’re close to an opponent, and you go for an anti-air or a reversal but it misses, every character will get punished regardless of the move. I don’t see a situation you would be using tatsu from a distance though.
Good points Reipin. I guess I didn’t consider LK tatsu simply because I don’t use it. I’ve always used EX Tatsu, cr.hp or cr.mk. Due to the way I play, I always have sufficient amount of meter so there aren’t a lot of situations where I would consider lk tatsu.
Based on what you said, the risk/reward for lk tatsu doesn’t seem worth it.
First of all the situation is completely different at the time this was posted I was the best Viper in the US after placing top 3 in like every major for a whole year in Vanilla and then Super came out and was still fresh. The situation here is a bunch of Gouken players who never do shit probably don’t even travel but sit here and complain like they are doing the best that gouken can do
Mullah I knew that this was gonna happen no matter what happened there was gonna be excuses either I am getting raped because gouken sucks or I am not getting raped because my competition sucks even though I would do the same thing I did the past 2 days to the top players as well probably even better. People like you guys are the reason I hate SRK so tired of dealing with people who act like they know what they are talking about when they really don’t whatever I am done have fun in 2012 with your new and improved character
By caving in you arm both camps with “proof” of their opinions. Who gives a shit what dirt bags on the forums say? Three weeks ago there were, what?, 10 people posting regularly here. Of course you’re going to see the same few opinions repeated over and over, there aren’t enough mouths to voice a spectrum of opinions.
Now you have a bunch of shit bag trolls jumping in here to shit away their lives making nonsense posts, regurgitating shit with which they have no personal experience.
I’m a crap player, I readily admit that. I don’t blame the character, it’s all me. I get worked when I play Yun, I win when I play Dan. Both are my doing. If a character has faults that you fail to work around, guess what, your fault. If a character has tools you can’t utilize, still your fault.
Doesn’t matter if the character is “touney viable”, if you can’t make it happen, then the point is moot. The first chance to make a mistake is at the character select screen.
Follow though, play Gouken. Get a feel for the character, share some new technology. Actually make a point. All you do by quitting is showing that shit heads on forums are a bunch of negative dip shits. Which is pointless, they do that themselves.
Bad assumption. I know what I’m talking about, I was the best Blanka in europe after placing top 3 in like every major for a whole year in Vanilla (which even involved travelling abroad ;P), so I’m qualified to pick up a character and judge it without being one of the uninformed.
What you need to consider is that srk isn’t just for the fanatical tournament players, and that the people you Hate are simply regular people who don’t prioritise this game in the same way as you do. So why do you expect everyone to approach and view the game and their character in the same way you do? fighting games are a HOBBY for everyone TOP PLAYERS included don’t forget that and nerd rage online. You will only look back in a year or two and wonder what the fuck were you thinking.
Yes, it does. There seems to be at least a frame, and probably more like 2 between the absorb and the hit coming out. I know one of bagelobo’s 'sim tactics against my Gouken is to bait high Kongo with j.HK. He lands, letting the foot retract before Kongo’s hit comes out, and since he’s at a distance, it whiffs and leaves me in recovery, where he usually tags me with st.FP after.
You are absolutely right and that is where this whole problem emerged from, this project was kind of designed for players that were interested in taking the game seriously and not for the casual player who could care less about actually knowing what they are talking about and that unfortunately appears to be a good majority of the players here. In the end everything is a “HOBBY” but some people make a living out of it(sports, gambling, SC2, etc, etc) there will always be people who take things to a higher level and have a higher understanding compared to the casual person but hey maybe I’m wrong maybe I don’t know anything about fighting games in general and I’m just lucky I didn’t pick a bad character in every single game.
This was a just an idea and obviously I didn’t take into account that not enough people take the game seriously for me to do certain characters so its basically a waste of time and I am gonna start working on something else now
Counter activates in one frame. Like Tiberious says though, there is a lag between activating and hitting.
Once you do the motion, the counter is active in the sense that it can be triggered. This happens on the first frame, you cannot poke him in between or anything else.
After the counter has been triggered there is a delay before the explosion goes off. You can hit him out of it during this part. It is extremely tough to do so though.
Moves that will beat a counter are EX hand part of devils reverse/head stomp, blanka knees, EX green hand.
I play a bison on the regular who will bait a counter by doing cr.mp xx EX psycho crusher. Counter activates from the c.mp and psycho crusher knocks me on my ass.
You know dude, you never really gave it a chance. You came in here swinging elbows and hay makers with your words. You came in here telling everyone you hate them and that they are all scrubs and that they suck and that it is them and never the character and that we are all cheaters.
That’s what you opened with.
Even when I tried to ask you simple questions and just discuss the character you came with that sort of shit.
You handled the stream monster just fine yesterday but you get eaten alive by srk posters.
You’re a really angry dude, angrier then me, and that’s saying something.
It’s a waste of time cause you don’t want to do it and you don’t want to engage the community in discussion. You just want to be right and denounce everyone, that’s the impression I get from when you came in here. You just generalize and shit on everyone. Great fucking attitude. :tup:
I watched your stream both days from 3 to 5. Only the Dudley gave you trouble that I remember. I was impressed with how fast you picked up everything being thrown at you, but you didn’t play anyone good and you know it. Be real.
Seriously, no one needs this kind of attitude. No one ASKED you to prove anything, they just wanted to see you learn Gouken, I specifically was interested in the method you would use so I could apply it to other characters. You came in here with something to prove after you saw the thread, you wanted to prove to everyone that you were great, the character was good, and they were scrubs.
P.S. You don’t need to travel to take a game seriously.
I think plenty of people take the game seriously but most of them gravitate towards the more established characters. You are in the position to potentially establish Gouken as a “viable” character.
At the very least people will take notice of what you achieve with him, any results by a known player using Gouken are going to go the rounds on all of the FG forums.
If that attention brings more decent players to the Gouken community, there will (hopefully) be an influx of new technology. That’s all I care about. People bemoaning the loss of element of surprise due to him being more widely used aren’t considering the positives.
Haymakers with my words…its a fact that the poll was cheated and blaming the character instead of yourself is the epitome of scrubness lol and that doesn’t even relate to being good or not there are some top players who are good but have ridiculous scrub mentalities. You say that I don’t want to engage in discussions but there are absolutely no discussions in these forums it’s all crying and talking about your moves(normals and specials). There isn’t a valid discussion that pertains to how the character is suppose to be played or improving your game I’m sorry but I will pass on wasting my time discussing about pointless shit.There is a reason why none of the top players post on SRK
PS - the last thing I am is angry anyone who has met me before would know that
Oh noes, a couple people cheated on the poll! You are contractually obligated to play Gouken for the rest of your life!
I know what a scrub is, you think you’re the first person to read that article?
You’re generalizing and lumping everyone into the same category, there are plenty of people here who don’t do what you are saying EVERYONE does.
This was your first post here…
You basically just attacked everyone in the forum with your first post.
It’s cool, I think it is safe to say no one really gives a fuck at this point, myself included.
If you think your posts here make you come off as some cool approachable dude who is happy go lucky, you’re a comedian.
You set out to show people how you learn a character and you didn’t teach anyone a god damn thing.
Good job.
Actually I set out to teach people the players who actually cared about getting better and taking this serious with out the bullshit crying about nonsense and I spoke to 2 Gouken players personally so it wasn’t a complete waste of my time. Next time I will put on my Mr.Rogers sweater so I you can feel safer lol.
So…whats being streamed today? more gouken stuff? marvel? or are u startin on a new character?
Antagonistic. Heavy Generalizing. Laughable.
I was going to write up each and every time you’ve generalized or change the topic, but that would take too long, so I just posted these three (in the same post). Everyone’s real problem is your generalizing of every statement.
So you’ve gone through each an every post on the entire board? Half of them? A quarter of them? An eighth of them? I doubt it. Your related blanket claims are invalid. Can’t comment on their accuracy, but their validity I can.
So you’ve talked to and played against every Gouken player that posts here? Half of them? A quarter of them? An eighth of them? I doubt it. Your related blanket claims are invalid. Can’t comment on their accuracy, but their validity I can.
Oh if you don’t know what invalid means: having a conclusion that does not follow from the premises: it may be false whenthe premises are all true; not valid. The handful of examples you have can all actually be examples of what you say they are, meaning your premises are true, but it can still be false that everything you pointed out can be applied to every person here.
You make blanket claims and don’t back any of it up. Talking out of your ass. That’s the problem here.
Its not about being nice or catering to anyone’s egos, its about treating the community with respect. You’ve shown little to none here, you get little to none here, at the very least from me, a lowly, humble scrub. Also, lets say that I blame Gouken for my problems, aaand I suck at everything at ever do. This seems to be your opinion of me, so I’ll take it in stride. Instead of pouting, taking your ball and going home, actually be helpful, respectful, and continue…or GTFO.
Stay free.
I can appreciate the effort in learning the character, not so much the condescending attitude coming into it, but that’s kinda par for the course I guess. I can say that I haven’t really taken anything away from the streams honestly. If there were some people who did take away something that’s great, wasn’t expecting the world or anything, but thought I’d get something substantive out of someone who thinks the character is really good. Also I don’t think anyone should care what flash or infiltration’s opinion on the goukens position in the tier list is since neither is infallible even if they are great tourney players. There is more evidence to indicate otherwise, so I’ll leave the opinions where they are…opinions…not very good or well informed ones, but opinions nonetheless.
I guess posting threads to improve voter turnout on a poll, is cheating. Oh unless you’re referring to the one guy that said he voted twice with two Browsers.
With or without cookies, Gouken was going to win. Just from the sheer numbers on this forum. He was leading the vote at about 8-9% when I voted, before I posted this thread to let everyone know, I think that says something.
“Gouken week is canceled”