This is the 20% where it’s more than OK to complain. And even then I wouldn’t mind all these poorly thought out changes if they were fun. Tekken 6 is one of the most boring fighters I’ve ever played, in recent memory anyways.
Word. Everybody was crying about Tekken having canned combos before bound. Now that it’s in and we can actually deviate from what was given to us as law makes simple minded people angry because they got hit by that brand new Kuma 70% combo that he needed.
Speaking for myself, I have played Tekken 6 more then enough, and it’s a pile of rabbit vomit. Even top players from around the US have vent their distaste for the game, so not only “standard” players say otherwise. I’m sure many of us know who Conk is, and even he says it’s called Trash 6.
Bound is a load of bullshit, because it makes the game too fucking one-dimensional, you call what you see in T6 as a “solid” ground game? Please, the ground games we saw in earlier Tekken games make T6 ground games look like trash.
Your sitting their utilizing Launchers/Crushes/Lows/Hopkicks for the launcher, even guys that I was watching here who are solid players where doing nothing but just sitting to wait for people to fuck up, and ggpo to juggle land.
Launchers leading to half life, and the reward/risk ratio is completely lopsided to one side…I mean, many times all you can get is a damn jab for punishment…in comparison to a potential of 50-60% damage, come on. You see quite a bit of d/f+2 whoring in T6.
Also, once you start realizing that the reason T6 looks quite “balanced” so far is the fact that practically everyone can launch/juggle/bound/juggle/walls etc, etc, forcing you the player having to guess what to expect next…remember, guess…definitely a true indication of character diversity here. This shit is just completely ridiculous, and if I wanted to put more salt on the wound, it’s also the stupid 10-Frame Universal Jabs…this shit is just fucking lazy on Namco’s part, because characters who needed 8-frame jabs did not get any real compensation for them at all.
Rage is dumb, because even at my time when visiting my Uncle in Japan for 2 weeks, I was watching some pretty lame ass scrubby ass comebacks in T6 due to Rage. Shits dumb, when you throw a low poke…a fucking low poke…which can get crushed by a hopkick, resulting in you losing, because with the rage, and oh…the wall, it’s game over, wow, you had over half-life, but with one fuck up and someone with bonus damage took you out for one fuck up. I mean…is their even an advantage to having more life then the opponent in Tekken 6?
People are really lying to themselves, if they play Tekken 6, and they don’t say alot of their gameplay revolves around getting the opponent to the air for juggles/bound/wall game mentality. It simply results in you abusing a few moves, and taking advantage of the shitty universal game system.
I don’t necessarily hate Tekken 6, I really love the series in fact (took it seriously from T3 onward), however I just don’t like the concepts that they’ve thrown into (toned down movement, tracking seems to hit alot better due to this as well, either that or moves just seem to connect better, bound, Universal 10-Framers, ground break can potentially led to bound again…and stupid ass rage).
Yet, as much as I am frustrated with Tekken 6, I really feel that with the right fixes, they could make Tekken 6 to be solid, which is what I’m hoping with Tekken 6 : BR, and if you really like Tekken 6 for what it is currently, good for you, however I would like a fighting game with more character variety and less emphasis on every character trying to focus on juggle/bound/wallsplat.
your concept of what bound does for juggles is very misconstrued.
bound doesn’t make people go for juggles. FREE DAMAGE is why you go for juggles. and that’s been in EVERY tekken. t1 had tons of 100% juggles. t2 had 100% juggles and 70-80% combos that would end in stomps and ground attacks that were competition standard. nothing has changed. t3, ttt, t4, t5,dr… look at the top characters in each game and tell me that the best characters weren’t the ones launching you every 5 seconds. t4 is probably your only legitimate contender, cuz it was a serious pokefest and steve and lee could legitimately hold their own without launchers and still be top tier… but thier juggles only helped them out more.
bound didn’t make juggles any more significant. they onle made them different. a mid screen juggle is still only going to net you 35-45% unless you’re kysg. that’s exactly the same as t5 and dr was. its even somewhat on par with ttt juggles.
d/f+2 has been abused since… well… forever? i couldn’t tell you how many hwoarang, baek, nina, anna, ganryu, etc… uppercuts i’ve gotten hit with in all games… why? THEY’RE SAFE LAUNCHERS. bound didn’t make them any more abusable. it maybe made them more rewarding, but it only makes a big difference around walls anyways. even unsafe uppercuts are abused… look at jack in dr… who the shit didn’t abuse that move?
i don’t see alot of the hate you’re spewing, and aside from rage hating (which along side wall bounding is the only legit hate i think this game deserves) , you really haven’t sold me on why the game i’m playing is a bad game. in fact, most of your points feel like biased hatred without much guidance. seriously, i can go on youtube and find a bunch of videos of good players who play it as a complete game, and with how small mistakes can be punished hard in this game, you have to be complete. here in norcal, we’re playing the game alot… we don’t have too big of a scene any more, and we’re supporting a game we enjoy. it has its flaws and is relatively easy compared to other games, but it’s solid and is still competitive.
it seems like you argue the results of fucking up (getting bitch owned with a juggle) instead of realizing that there’s a large portion of the game that you’re missing out on (not getting bitch owned with a juggle).
Could somebody explain what exactly bound is? I’ve yet to play T6, so I have no idea what all the hubbub is about. Video examples would be nice as well.
Here’s what gets me.
Complaints about juggle damage
You guys will cry about high damage juggles. This is a fact, there’s always a vocal portion of the community that will. Okay, fine, lower the damage on juggles. “Wahh all you did was make it take 2 launchers and some jabs and you lose” WTF. Get over it. Even back in T1/2 some chars had simple juggles like launch, 1,2 pounce and got like 50% sometimes. You get launched you’re losing some fucking life. This is from way back in the 90s. Namco tried giving you that shit in T4 when average combos were doing like 30% and niggas cried. GET OVER IT.
Launchfest
If you’re fucking up so much that you’re getting launched all the time either YOU FUCKING SUCK, AND NEED TO STEP YOUR GAME UP or YOU’RE GETTING OUTPLAYED, AND NEED TO STEP YOUR GAME UP. If US top players are getting away with turtling until they can random launch you, maybe you need to do something about that. They figured something out about your style, fix it.
Frankly, I hope those of you that are crying the most get what you want, not T6BR, but T4.1. And while we’re at it we’ll remove walls because all that damage from hitting the wall is lame.
IMO most of the “problems” need minor tweaking(rage should only boost dmg on the 1st hit, but I and a whole lot of other people have been saying that for a long time). The one thing they NEED to fix is the throw system, because a lot of throw attempts are very telegraphed. Bring usefulness back to standard throws.
Fuck, I wouldn’t mind Tekken 4.1 Last time I enjoyed a Tekken was Tekken 4, since Namco actually decided to change things up.
totally sweet news :woot:… how it is that i missed about this, shame of me :shake:
I actually feel bad for TZ mods, because I can imagine how lame those fuckers are gonna be over there if this thread is any indication.
I’m not pissed off about the damage people get off of launchers, but the risk/reward of d/f+2’s and hopkicks are so skewed that it rewards defense too much. That’s Tekken’s problem: risk/reward isn’t evened out.
You hit someone with a 12 frame d/f+2 you get a full juggle into bound bullshit, but on block you’re just negative but safe or what, jab punishable? Same thing with hopkicks, but now you got high crush bullshit to deal with. If you are gonna throw out a launcher, you should risk getting launched on block.
I think Namco should change d/f+2’s so they cause the ‘pop up’ effect and give you frame advantage, or make you fall down in a way that doesn’t cause juggles; and hopkicks should cause a techable butt stun like Julia’s new 1,1,1(makes it alot more fair), or gives a oki mixup. No one should have the ability to launch til around 16+ frames, and usually those moves are highly punishable. That would strengthen Tekken’s ground game and get rid of the ‘turtle and hopkick’ mentality that’s prevailent these days.
…and about Bound, I really wouldn’t mind it so much if the size of the stages would be increased so everyone wouldn’t have coast to coast juggles. I’m a Julia player, so it pisses me off that one of her main strengths(juggle carries) is pretty much made obsolete because everyone can carry just as far with bound.
And I liked T4. Not really the uneven stages or Jin or Lee much, but as a whole the game was pretty solid.
there are always a lot of scrubs in any community sadly :tdown:
Subt-L, you are absolutely right on d/f+2 being used, however the damage ratio wise then to now is astronomical. Bound is dumb, not just because of the “damage” or free as you will, although damage is a factor to it, bound is dumb, because it makes the game go into a launch/crush/hopkick mentality regardless of whom you play, because it’s “so good” it forces you to having to use it for every character, regardless of the circumstances.
I have stated this before, if damage was the “only” problem, then Namco would have solved it a long time ago with the 70 million patches they did for Tekken 6 already.
All it’s doing is simply prolonging juggles, and makes sending the opponent to the wall, that much easier. You talk to anyone, almost everyone can sorta tolerate the damage (although the damage is still stupid), most cannot tolerate the fact that it can carry you from coast to coast in stages far more easily then you would be able too even in a game such as DR.
Getting someone to the wall in Tekken 6 should be more hard earned…not a coast to coast one fuck up wonder. That’s the reason why when you get to the wall, the shit hurts, because it happens quite frequently and often due to the bound prolonging air juggles. Not to mention so many things lead to bound, which can lead to juggles and it just makes shit into a messy guessing game, of what the fuck to do, or wait, I shouldn’t attack.
Shit limits creativity and character variety, and just because people play it alot don’t mean it’s a “deep” game. We see this with current fighting games today, for if someone is to say “Well, 3S gets more play over ST”. Yes, that maybe true, however, from a deep end well built game engine perspective, the SFII series still wins. We also need to stop talking about T1 and T2, they where “great” for their time, however they are completely unplayable now. T3 had ridiculous damage, however everyone did ridiculous damage in the game, and their was tons of strong characters in there. TTT did huge damage as well, however it compensated for this by having 2 lifebars, and the fact that from an execution standpoint, it took way more effort to get good at then in T5 or T6.
Saotome, this shit doesn’t happen just at “standard” level, this has also been discussed by some of the well established players in the Tekken community. Hell, didn’t JOP post at TZ about how he talked with MDJ and he was saying something that DR and T6 sucks as well? He’s like what…one of Korea’s best as well. I mean, is it really just my level of gameplay that’s feeling this? Only in these recent Tekken games, have I’ve seen someone as solid as Slips lose out to some no namer that I’ve never heard of.
Even someone as fucking awesome as Conk says this game is fucking trash, and there is no denying that he really knows his shit when it comes to the game of Tekken. So as far as I’m concerned, this isn’t just a vent of random “players”, but even top lvl players from the community are left scratching their heads saying wtf is going on in Tekken 6. I’ve played to where I’ve had 60% of my life, and bringing my opponent down to rage…only to get struck once, and it was game over. For real, there was absolutely almost no real advantage in me having that much life in comparison to my opponents, because one fuck up, could potentially mean I am dead.
Ya know, shouldn’t the player with that much life have a significant advantage, after a few times which happened at different life percentages, I became hesitant to throw out an attack. Basically put, even if you have a significant amount of more life to a Raged Opponent…your still one fuck up away from losing, which is absolute bs.
Even DR, a Tekken game I absolutely hated, but I do like it now due to playing T6 has more creativity then this. In DR at it’s peak, there was still a heavy amount of poking, and really great spacing between opponents, which made matches more interesting. Given in T6, you still have to do that as well, however everything is even more watered down, and the game forces you to having to utilize bound, if you want to win. So many things lead to bound, that it forces you to having to utilize it to do damage and win. Juggles should be some character’s best form of obtaining damage, but not pracitcally everyone’s best way of obtaining damage, which is what I also find so degrading about T6.
It’s funny that you should speak of Tekken 4, because I actually liked Tekken 4. Maybe because that Tekken game had the hugest emphasis on a building a Top-Tier Defensive gameplan, and ask anyone who played during T4’s time at the super high lvls, if you didn’t have an excellent defensive in T4, you where dead, simply because the offensive game in T4 was off the charts.
You really had to understand the game engine in order to be really good in that game, and yeah, Jin Kazama was broken and the most overpowered tournament legal Tekken character ever. However, if they would have made a patch, they could of done some really nice stuff to it.
I liked it for the fact that juggles where in fact toned down, and if they could have removed the uneven floors (since too many people bitched about that) then it would have shown some promises, because you just simply beef up the weaker characters, make JFLS escapable, make Parry the way it is in T5/6 now, tone down some of Nina, Steve’s, Lee’s shit and it would be alot better already.
That game took way more balls to play and had far better character individuality when it came to playing a specific character then Tekken 6 is now, where it has definitely been toned down from a gameplay lvl in order to suite to more casual players. Tekken 4’s problem was coming out after arguably the most popular Tekken game of all time which was Tekken Tag. Yeah, people cried about Tekken 4, but I actually preferred it, and I was disgusted when T5 allowed everyone the ability to do 60% juggles, which was horse shit.
In fact, back in TZ, when about a month or two after Tekken 5’s release, I was talking about how it got random as hell with the crushes/hopkicks and everyone having massive juggling potential. I got written off as some “scrub”, yet just less then a year into Tekken 5’s lifespan, even Top Players started posting up threads about the same exact notions that I stated months earlier…coincidence, I don’t know, but it sure is sad to be right sometimes.
For real, I would like to rant, however I am not here to change your mind or anyone else’s, because as I stated earlier, if you enjoy Tekken 6 for what it is. Cool for you, as for me, I do not like how Tekken 6 plays like with heavy emphasis on bound, and rage.
bring back 8frame jabs, rage is garbo, either reduce the damage off safe juggle starters (the standard d/f 2s) make them crumblestun or something—rethink bound…its soo good im seeing generic combos/play styles; imho u wud think generic over the long term wud lose to creative, experienced gameplay but with rage/bound/wall random 50/50s lead to death. not cool when games are 1.50 to play in my neck of the woods—o i miss the day when lings/lees were tricky / kings went 4 throw mix ups / bruce/wang/julia fished 4 counters-now the universal playstyle seems like go for a crush to bound and hope a wall is near by dont get me wrong games can b fun and exiciting but also QUITE frustrating and the better player doesnt always win over the long run
That post is very hard to read.
- I have no opinion either way about 8f jabs.
- I have given my idea for fixing rage if they choose to continue using it
- The problem with adjusting safe juggle starters is that people will still try to maximize damage off of that stun, so what do you really want it to do? make it so those moves instantly knock down with no chance to bound/juggle? That would be kinda interesting, because there are quite a few moves that can lift from a low status, and a handful of those also bound now. =/
- Bound in itself is fine
- there haven’t been “creative” combos for a long time, some people must not be seeing this. At the beginning you find out what basic shit works, that turns into your BnB. Then people find ways to make that BnB more powerful to get more bang for your buck. Then at some point you reach the peak, max damage for minimal effort. That’s part of the reason why you don’t see as many Raven Multi knee combos, etc. Why work that hard when you can do 2 or three decent hits, B!, then the old finisher and get similar dmg? Some people aren’t going to throw away free dmg for creativity.
- I’ve played plenty of tricky lees/lings, I’ve personally kept my King/Armor King play to throw mixups and striking more than launch-juggle(WATCH MY (old)VIDS ON UTUB, username tko910, and some of my older ones from StridaJin), the old game is still in there. I still maintain that some people are getting away with shit they shouldn’t. Some CHARACTERS, OTOH, have 50/50s that lead to practically the same combo for the same damage. That should change.
Re:TSephiroth - The wall to wall thing is a side effect of pushback. I covered this before, you can see it in the KYSG vid. An alternate way of killing combos like that is to increase gravity(fuck that air control bullshit) instead of increasing pushaway so that you don’t get the “jab to wall” thing people have complained about since T5.
As for the other points, I only defend T6 because it can be patched/updated a lot easier than the past games, and I guess I’m a little too hopeful.
for the standard d/f 2s i was thinking something along the lines of kings new crouchdash 4, which staggers and if u dont tech u get free launcher—sort of a mindgame, if u know the opponent can/does tech u go for grab/low.so the award sud b an advantage/momentum instead of tons of life granted the d/fs r safe on block.
in addition to bound or instead of, i like to see moves that downed an opponent from a juggle and depended on what move u used dictacted how the body landed (head toward+face down, feet away + head up… etc) that wud led to some cool oki strats instead of '“insert highest damaging combo” after juggle starter
sry 4 blockyness and shorthead
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Luckily they fixed techrolls, otherwise that would be dumb.
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Some moves do that.
If we gotta wait, we gotta wait, I guess…
I haven’t heard much about Law in terms of Tekken 6, and he is my main for the whole series (in Tag, I teamed him with Baek)…how does he shape up in this installemt of the series? I’ve never felt like I lost anything in each newer installment…things changed, yes, and I worked around them…thats all anyone should be worried about anyways…workin’ with what they got…otherwise they can make their own game and hush…
Law is pretty sweet in T6, I think…the new animations are nice, a little weird at first, but pretty cool.
good. thread is good
tekken 6 is in tampa so guess what im doing tomorrow!!!.. that’s right playing sf4 bc its also in tampa!!!1