True. I’ve just written off DOA completely (I think I got up to DOA3) from my Games-I-should-rent-when-I’m-bored list.
Anyhoo… since there’s been Hwoarang talk, coincidentally enough, Tekken dot com just updated with a Lars v Hwoarang vid:
Well, not to take anything away from VF but in VF you can input buffers to break throws, like 3 I think, not sure, while in Tekken you have to watch for the hands. One chance. Input wrong and you fail. And some throws for certain characters like King are really fucked up to attempt to break.
VF ss’ing works much differently, more of a true evasion, but you can’t ss around your opponent as you please in Tek. And this has been even more limited in 6/BR. So wtf? Idiot.
No for real dude, quit posting. Your ignorance has now reached epic levels beyond recognition. You need to go play Rag Doll Kung Fu. I heard it has enough depth to where you can feel important while discussing it.
P.S. You probably haven’t broken or teched a throw in your life, in any game. It’s kind of funny because this could very well be true. 
Wow… you’re still here?
Throws… First and foremost, you can buffer multiple throw breaks in VF. In tekken, whatever button you happened to tap you’re locked into for your break attempt. Also, it’s not just left/right, there’s also 1+2 and even some 3+4 breaks. Then there’s throws that there are no breaks, but they can be reversed(like king’s figure 4).
Why does this buffer situation matter? Simple, because in VF strikes always take priority over a throw, while in tekken if your throw’s grab impact frame is faster than his attack, that throw is going to be attempted. Do this during a string(it’s possible with some) and now the button in their string is going to count as that throw break attempt… Yeah, essentially you’re screwed.
Basically, you have to see which hands are trying to grab you to break the throw, which is a SEVERE pain, considering king has throws that look like a 1+2 break, but really aren’t… GS anyone?
There’s even throws like Julia’s MA that not even the best players in the world can break every time… So where are you getting this nonsense from? Not saying VF throws are any easier to break, but in reality tekken throws are NO PICNIC to break either, if they were they would never even see use in high-level play, but you’ll see even in the naps vs MDJ finals that throws were commonly used.
Also, about the whole “skating around your opponent” in tekken. Every character has ways to track your opponent, especially in 6 and BR. An example is king’s f+4, which will track a side-step. It’s not as simple as “oh, I’m going to side-step the whole fight”, people WILL catch you and make you pay. It just means you have to play smart. Also, there’s moves that only track during so many frames, which means at certain disadvantages they won’t track, ask ANY ling player in T5: DR about that one… Same with distances too, like Asuka’s u/f+3 in DR.
Ontop of that, f+1+3 and f+2+4 track side-steps BOTH WAYS, for every single character.
Also, about the whole “weight system”…Size matters in tekken… There’s combos that work on all sizes in tekken, just like there is in VF, but there’s also character specific due to their size. A VERY solid example is in T5: DR.
King’s FC d/f+2, f+3, 2, 1, 1, ISW…
Jack? the f+3 doesn’t catch.
Kuma? The 2 misses
Small characters? the 2 misses, you have to switch it for a 1
BTW, seeing as how you said combos are easy in tekken, how about you go fire up the game and land that one, and make a video out of it… I can do it as a staple against medium sized characters, but I reallllllly doubt you’ll land it even once.
The combo only works on medium sized characters, or marduk.
Another solid example is asuka’s f+2, b+2,1,3, f+1+2… It has a habit of whiffing on Kuma, depending on axis and distance when the launcher connects.
DJ’s EWGF, f,f+3,1, b,f+2,1,2? Same thing here… Won’t hit small characters, and against marduk you have to end with d+2 instead of 2 or it’ll whiff.
There’s TONS of combos that are “weight specific” just like you said in Tekken.
Finally, since tekken combos are so easy, go record a video landing 5 ewgfs in T5 with kaz… Don’t worry, we’ll wait. If you’re willing to do it, we’ll tell you a stage, just so we can verify you won’t be re-uploading a video that’s already on youtube and claiming it’s yours.
First one has to be off a CH df+2 as well. :wgrin:
In VF you’re correct, you can buffer to break throws, 3 is not max though. The maximum is just how many you can get registered in the window. In ETEG 4 is gdlk, 3 is good shit pro, 2 is everything needed to have top notch defense to be totally successful, and 1 is reading skills. I’ve been told that even Itazan only uses 1 TE in ETEG though.
Keep in mind that I think average there’s about 4 input directions not including neutral(which is also an escape in itself though).
You can put as many TE’s in as you want in however large the window is, I don’t know there’s a certain window before and after a throw begins. And you need to have the input register for 2 frames for a TE to count, so you can’t just mash em out as fast as possible, either.
VF5 onward, has 2 different ways of sidestepping. There’s the regular DM when successful you dodge a move, if you fail you’re defenseless for good time. And then there’s OM, which actually works kind of like how Tekken’s SS system, where it’s based on the hitbox tracking over circular properties. And in VF, you can sidestep around your opponent, some characters even have very very dangerous back throws and back low throws, you can also just walk clear around your opponent too if you don’t hit P, K, or G, so their particular attacks won’t realign and track you.
Thanks for the clarication man. My friend Lil Majin (King player) played VF5 back when it was very fresh and there were small tourneys for it. Used Wolf and could get 3 TE registered in the window like everytime. I thought that was the norm lol.
And I forgot to say that there were the 2 ss. The traditional VF ss and the VF-“Tek” ss, although I’m a scrub at mostly all VF mechanics.
If I still played games just to play I would be thoroughly learning and playing VF, but unfortunately I only play for the competition now, so if something isn’t getting played in my scene it’s very likely that I won’t give it any attention. Besides Vamp Savior which I’m going to start back playing soon, even if it’s alone. Fuck SF4, BB, and KOFXII if it isn’t as good as XI lol.
-_____-
XI was a broken piece of shit , its a baby MvC2
I’m glad they took off the tag bs , that nonsense always breaks the game ( TTT doesnt count >_> )
and XII rulez , i’m currently enjoying it more than T6 in the arcades , FUCK T6 ! EVERY MOFO AND THEIR MOM USES BOB !
I Need me some BR , eefffff T6 >_<
KOF XI is lightyears better than 12 even without tagging. Didn’t shit on all the previous work that had been done while it attracted a shitload of new players with the new system.
They even fixed it on the console version for people who whined about the arcade one if they cared to try the arranged version.
Most accessible KOF ever in my book.
This rings true for me as well. I was a serious VF player before I took Tekken seriously, and taking Tekken seriously was due in part because of the lack of VF comp: VF died around me when TTT came out, and I even though tried to keep myself at a decent level up until 4EVO, you just couldn’t avoid the fact that you had nobody to play against. Screaming “Eat that mofo!” at your screen just wasn’t doing it for me. Now I just play it casually. Thank God Tekken improved massively from DR to BR.
Slide: You ought to try Bob. I’ve seen your Sarah, and call it a hunch, but I think you’ll jive with his style pretty well.
Shishioh: Serious question: is XII > SF4? Because I’d love to trade in my SF for a decent 2D game (just not sure which one to pick: BB or XII).
hmmm idk , i’d give that title to 98 UM and 2002 UM , my 2 fave KoFs but thats just me
i also like KOF MI RA but that game gets ppl all cranky and shit so i dont mention it
I HATE SF4 and 12 equally but I would give the edge to KOF because I’m biased towards it. But they are both following the same mold of throwing away hard work and great ideas to play it safe, hoping to attract the “Gr@F1cs!!!” crowd for extra momentum.
I traded my SF4 in for Cross Edge and haven’t looked back since. Just throwing that out there.
Doesn’t usual 10 frame buffering period also apply to DTE/TTE/ETEG? [/VF] In BR, Tekken’s SS system is almost the same as being hibox-dependant but with additional/altered full-circular (‘homing’ in Tekken lingo) move(s) for everyone which fully track both ways disregarding all variable, just like long-range throws.
In order to proceed with the actual discussions, here is Korean tier-list from TZ:
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/8818/levelu.jpg
The categories (from left to right) are:
- Tier status
- Pitbull
- Combos/Wall-carry
- Speed/Poking
- Power
- Grapplers
- Stance based characters
I have no idea why Raven is uncategorised and/or the meaning of words written beside him.
Why is Ganryu top tier, I thought he was bottom?
Quick question, how is buffering in general in BR? Is it more like VF or SC?
I’m definitely going to try Bob, and Miguel too, to see what they’re like. Although again I’ve already liked Steve and Nina, and BR makes me like them more. I’m really feeling that new stance Steve has where he’s kind of hunched over guarding his body, due to the way it looks(stylish) and the options I’ve seen available from it. And I’ve always loved Nina hayashida step and snake dashes, doing them and how they benefit her gameplay. It’s like the two characters I enjoy the most look even more enjoyable. I’m hype for this game.
Yeh, it does. So that’s the 10f buffer before an actual throw comes out, and then I don’t remember how many you have when the throw starts. Could be the same amount. The hardest conventional TE technique is probably TEG with multiple escapes, to me that’s a more difficult technique than ETEG, it’s less of a window to protect you from whiffing throws with the guard button.
Good shit on the tier list. It’s good to know I won’t be using the absolute worst character in the game this time(like VF5 Sarah). I remember the older tier lists, had Steve and Lars like undisputed, and Nina was fishing around in C with Paul, but Nina moved way up, I guess the combo potential got unlocked with that new move that carries so far.
IIRC that tier list was disproven awhile back, Mainly because of korean tekken settings. BAH FUCK IT, GO MIGUEL!!!
So on a whim, I DL’ed T5DR online from the PSN store, and as a straight up noob to any Tekken- my main 3D games were SC and VF- I’m just trying to get the basic’s down.
Is there anything I should start learning first and formost?
I’m working on my movement- that is a given in any game, and it’s not something I expect to master instantly. My two main characters I’ve somehow randomly picked are paul and Bryan, both have the qcb sway like motion, so I’m working on utilizing that and then SS’ing afterwards.
I’m doing the combo thing, off of a few standard launchers, and a few quick hitting pokes and punishing attacks, I’m sure I’m not getting the maxium amount of damage off of every situation but once I can get a few BnB’s down, I’ll move on to more obscure oppertunites.
But, besides Paul and Bryan, is there a character everyone should start off with to learn Tekken. someone with not too much character specific tools and enough useful universal options, or does it even matter?
That and the fact that the tier gaps have shrunk considerably: e.g. a good Lee can beat a good Steve for example. Or watch HAO’s Feng against Rain’s Steve.
TBH, it seems like Zaf and the bears are the only one with issues. I’ve seen competitive Miguel’s, Yoshi’s, etc. in the Korean vids. The tiers are really not the same A > B > C > D > E > etc. shit they used to be.
The only universal move everyone has is the low parry, and the standard left throw/right throw, so there’s no point in looking for a “common” character. Paul’s easy to get into though.
More importantly, if you’re comfortable with them, stick with them. They’re both competitive in BR, so it’s not like you’re wasting your time learning them.
I don’t think that’s trolling, as it was stated by the Am-whatever team in a magazine interview back in 2005/6 “Virtua Fighter has always been built upon the concept of Rock Paper Scissors”…you can praise a game, then state a “but” counterpoint to it. That’s not trolling.
Glad to see so many people blinded by the ignorance of scrubby reviewers saying “OMG SC AND VF #1/1” looking past that nonsense and starting to learn Tekken or at least showing interest. From the sounds from Evo it sounds like a lot of 2D players are going to be jumping on the T6 ballsack this fall too.
Next Evo should be hype for Tekken. Hopefully another 1000+ showing. No better time to start. Game’s deep, balanced, and flashier than ever.