does anyone remember that regular Condor dive is not an overhead? I’m not too thrilled over this new EX Dive, but if it can at least be an overhead, then I feel a little better about this new move which costs bar.
being able to do it while jumping backwards is not exactly a big deal. I also don’t recall condor dives getting stuffed by fireballs being an issue, people tend not to shoot fireballs when T.hawk jumps.
I’m hoping that it has armor so it’ll stuff most DP type moves. But what I’m really hoping is that it does huge stun. If Zangief can have a normal move that costs no EX and does 600 stun, then I don’t think it would be overpowered for T. Hawk to have an EX move that does the same amount of stun.
Edit: I’m also hoping that it does 800 damage to Blanka and Guile.
the stun Idea is nice. the armor Idea is a little overkill on paper, but he practically needs it. I never heard of an air move that has hyper armor though, so its EXTREMELY doubtful. I also can’t imagine the developers doing more than making T.hawk better at what he already does adequately. in other words, he will not receive major (if any) changes to improve his bad match-ups. jump back condor dive isn’t going to help against Guile and company.
if there’s something that is preventing developers from giving this character better tools, it sure as hell isn’t because it would make him overpowered. CD is both an overhead and can be done during back jump in SFII and alpha 3, both games without back dash; he isn’t considered particularly strong in either games.
the no overhead thing goes for fei-long’s chicken wing, Makoto’s regular ax kick and Gouken’s dive kick off a demon flip (was overhead in vanilla). I have no idea why SFIV loves people who hold down back so much. god forbid characters can actually provide some basic mix up in their offensive game.
Agreed that giving it armor may seem like overkill, but man, it would be a sweet way to get though Dhalsim’s knee, Balrog’s cr.hp, DPs, Guile cr.hp, etc. But I guess it could be overpowered, especially as an air-to-air move. At the very least I hope they make it an overheard and, for the love of God, unthrowable. I swear if Guile can throw me out of EX Dive I’m gonna rage.
I think one reason Capcom is afraid to buff him too much is all the raging there was about vanilla Gief. Vanilla Gief wasn’t really overpowered when used by a semi-skilled opponent versus another semi-skilled opponent. But when both players were noobish then the player than picked Zangief had a definite advantage. More health to make more mistakes, and espically the churning. Churning is incredibly powerful versus noobs. That’s why there was so much negative feedback regarding vanilla Gief and why he got hit with the nerf bat disproportionately hard.
So now they’re extra carefull about making grapplers “too good” in the hands of noobs. It’s also why I think an excellent way to buff Hawk without making this problem worse is to buff his normals and not necessarily his specials. Noobs/scrubs don’t really use normals anyway. If you look at scrubby T. Hawk footage it’s nothing but Condor Dives and churning…I’m scrubby but not that scrubby. So make his st.mp become active 1 frame sooner, make his st.hp recover 1 frame sooner, make his st.hk recover 2 frames sooner, improve the hitbox on his nj.hp, etc. Stuff like that would make him better in the hands of people who use/understand his normals, but not make him an incredible churning killing machine in noob vs. noob fights.
Hell idk, it’s an idea. But they need to do something. If the puclicized buffs are all we’re getting, and with the buffs that the other lowish tier characters are getting (Gen, Makoto, Hakan, Guy, Gouken, etc.), then I honestly think Hawk stands to be the worst character in the game.
Had a dream last night that Capcom gave Hawk an air grab that slammed your opponent into the ground and bounced them giving you the option to EX dive for a follow up if you have meter, or just land next to them for wake up games…I then woke up and told myself to not dream about such impossible things!
I’m with Lvangundy though, that patience is needed to see what comes from the dev team. If they do choose to enhance his good stuff instead of rectifying his weaknesses as blackgenma says, then I would want to see more damage on his SPD’s like Gief for a start and more range on the LP version so we can tick for a third time and still grab. I also want to be able to link his c.lk into itself to help his tick game and get people holding down back more and crushing any thoughts of jumping away/out of pressure. Make Dive an overhead or make Thrust Peak an overhead. As I’ve said loads, a bit more invincibility on one of his Tomahawks and change the Spire motion as everyone has suggested and we are talking much more competitive times ahead. They already did some good with U2 so that box is ticked!
Whatever people say though, I reckon the changes to other characters have been a help on the whole. Juri and Gouken will have to watch out now with EX dive vs their firball game, Blanka Ball nerf is without a question a positive and means Blanka players have to think about getting in more, Hondas reduced damage and reduced effectiveness on mid to long range headbutts is also a plus and Seth loosing nj.hp makes getting in a little easier surely. On the flip side, Sagat got a bit of damage back, Guile, Chun, Akuma and Sim are pretty much untouched and I’m calling Dee Jay as a possible pain in the backside with the buffs he is getting (Cody may well be harder too). It is what Capcom does for T Hawk in these matches that matters most for me looking forward - Excellent zoners who on the whole can down back you death with excellent normal and special anti airs = hard work all round!
For me, if EX Condor Dive was invinvible all the way to the ground, that would rock. And I mean his feet planted on the ground.
Doesn’t Gouken have a move that has Armor in the air? Why not EX CD?
well, I forgot about that move, but its not an attack, its like a fake air block. either way, at least we know its possible to do it in the game’s engine. still, I highly doubt we are going to get armor on the dive. sounds too good for T.hawk, but we will just have to wait and see.
I know that Hawk was already talked about on the dev blog, but it also says that they’re talking about him next week too. It lists Dhalsim, Bison, Akuma, Adon, and T. Hawk.
Anyone know why they’d use 2 blog posts on him and not on any other characters? Or could this be a simple typo? Hopefully (but very doubtfully) this means they made so many changes to him that one blog post couldn’t handle it.
And holy crap, look at what they gave Dee Jay! Tons of tiny buffs. They buffed a lot of his normals and all of his specials. He’s generally considered to be higher-tiered that Hawk so these buffs (when compared to Hawk’s) seem very disproportionate. I can see Dee Jay being a rough matchup now.
They stuff they talked about before was a leak from a magazine I believe.
Dee Jay is lookin’ to be sick in AE.
DJ’s specials didn’t receive nothing but buffs though. apparently he gets punished more for getting hit when doing his projectile (at risk of counter hit the entire duration of the move) and less hit stun and block stun. you can now grab him out of his sobat kicks, which is huge.
other than those few notes, yeah, he’s going to be beast. crazy amounts of buffs to his normal moves.
I’m hoping the dev team will give hawk the same kind of love.
You could not grab DJ out of the Short version of the kicks because he was considered airborne; he won’t be now. I grabbed someone out of an Roundhouse one last night right before the first hit.
Ah, crap. You’re right. Still, here’s hoping he gets awesome buffs to his normals like Dee Jay.
Yeah, same here.
no way he doesn’t get a ton of buffs in next week’s blog, its the trend that every piece of shit character has gotten and t.hawk fits in nicely with that esteemed group.
I’m sure someone has said it before, but I’m sure if he is buffed enough people are going to flock to him. Eats me up inside when people play the character for tier instead of actual appreciation.
I don’t disagree with you, but I understand certain people going the tier route - serious tournie players do right to stay away…for now anyway. I’m not saying top hawks cannot win games but tourneys are asking too much. Too many guiles, chuns, hondas, sims to fight for a start and then you throw in the odd Seth, sagat and blanka and the odds are overwhelming.
I’m confident he’ll get some solid additions based on the low tier characters so far. if he does not then they might as well take him out because it will be harder than ever!
I’m convinced his changes won’t be dramatic but subtle instead. An added frame of invincibility here and there, reduced recovery on a few bits, improved hitboxes and maybe a motion change on a move. Topped off with a damage buff to his grabs. Looking forward to next weeks blog for sure.
I don’t disagree with you, but I understand certain people going the tier route - serious tournie players do right to stay away…for now anyway. I’m not saying top hawks cannot win games but tourneys are asking too much. Too many guiles, chuns, hondas, sims to fight for a start and then you throw in the odd Seth, sagat and blanka and the odds are overwhelming.
I’m confident he’ll get some solid additions based on the low tier characters so far. if he does not then they might as well take him out because it will be harder than ever!
I’m convinced his changes won’t be dramatic but subtle instead. An added frame of invincibility here and there, reduced recovery on a few bits, improved hitboxes and maybe a motion change on a move. Topped off with a damage buff to his grabs. Looking forward to next weeks blog for sure.
I hear winning is good.
People are saying the same thing in the Makoto, DJ, Gouken, Hakan forums. Really, people need to stop thinking they’re special for sticking with bad characters.
Anyone want to play “guess the changes” game? Just for fun, make your predictions to what will really happen on Monday.