Okay so this kind of works. Except eh, it’s just something i’ve got to practice. Anti Airing him and gief is the hardest part of winning those fights. NOW THEN, E Honda. that fight makes no sense.
Yeah so um…I got beat really bad by a Sagat that kept me out with tiger shots and standing roundhouses as if it was nothing. I had no clue what to do. I didn’t seem to be keeping up in the fireball war and if I got within poke range, I’d get TK’d back out again. While familiar with Sagat’s keep away game, it felt very crippling against Oni. Anyone have insight on this matchup?
I dunno. I beat MercilessKilling pretty soundly a ways ago and kept the replay… I used mk slash to get to him.
You have to slowly back him into the corner matching his fireballs and neutral jumping. Keep in mind that he can jumpin on you as well so only match his fireball. When he’s in the corner rape his shit. If you only get hit while blocking with one hit of the tiger knee then its safe. If you block multiple hits of tiger knee punish with dp jab throw etc.
Thanks Raiden. I’ll start training that asap. Are there any instances where a 1-hit tiger knee is actually safe? Under pressure it feels like I can’t punish it. I guess basically what I’m asking is, does it have to hit once AND be at close range for a full punish? Or can I pretty much just go for the full punish regardless of distance?
I think he means if the TK hits only once you cannot punish it. If it hits more than once, you can punish it.
Balrog is a bad matchup.
st. forward beats out alot of rush punches. Very satisfying when you break EX rush punches. Not that that answers your frustration fully with the matchup but it’s a start. I have no real strategy against Rog except stay out the corner. And I like to use roundhouse slashes to screw with his charge.
Indeed, but not worst than Dhalsim, Your only hope against a competent Rog is Option-Select tatsu/slash while you cross him on wake up but if he turtles you good luck buddy!.
1 - Try to bait headbutt out whenever Rog has Ultra
2 - Try to knock him down with HK ground pound for wake-up games
Taking this from the balance thread to here.
Oni has two safe jumps against Viper.
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Neutral throw, LK Slash, well timed/deep j.hk, which you can OS with EX DP/Tatsu(to stop backdashing, the safe jump should allow you to block the rest of her reversal options without getting hit too.)
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Neutral jump attack safe-jumps should work on Viper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ5fk-yspBo&list=FL4KunoV3DEuliyPTr2ZMyMg&index=29 Dan’s DP is about 4-5 frames, faster than Viper’s reversal options, and was safe-jumped. Which you can OS with EX DP/other stuff if Viper wants to backdash/EX Seismo feint
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If you want a better version that starts off with a low, here’s mine: cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.lp, b.mp>MK Stomp. Edge forward very slightly, then quickly neutral jump MK. You have to edge forward because Oni’s jump mk would actually whiff. HP Thunder Knuckle gets blocked, EX Seismo gets blocked, EX Burning Kick goes over Oni for a free punish. And again, you can OS EX DP and other junk. OS EX DP beats backdash, and her reversal options, blah, blah, blah, you know the drill.
I really wish I had my camera with me, I’d just record the safe-jumps for you. But those are your safe-jumps. If they’re not working out for you, you’re screwing them up and need to practice them more because I’ve tested them extensively, and they work 100%.
Viper’s reversal options also lose to general cross-ups, barring EX Seismo feint. Viper’s HP TK is NOT throw invul. It may have hit invincibility, but it’s not throw invul and there’s a window for it to be grabbed out of(throw=3 frames, HP TK=7 frames so throw is faster.) Numerous Viper players will tell you that HP TK can be grabbed out of, no matter when they do it or how well they time it, go and ask on the Viper boards.
Another classic option is to simply, just block, bait and empty jump. If Viper wants to risk reversaling without FADCing and she misses, she eats a big combo and Viper hasn’t got the best amount of health or stun so a couple more licks and she’s dizzied and on her way to the morgue. And I already mentioned how to deal with the rest of her defensive options, like LK BK and so on. If you don’t wanna take a risk vs Viper when she’s got Ultra, just block. Nothing wrong with that.
Viper’s a crappy MU for Oni, but it’s not her reversals that make it a crappy MU, IMO.
I do get your point I am not saying it cannot be done. Like’ve said I stop depending on that N.jump safe jump setup it is situational depending how you end your combo and how far they are you need to walk forward until you are at a meaty range to do the jump while this either screws up your timing and get punished or you get it.
Forward throw lk slash jump hk is a spaced safe jump, however that range is too far to catch back dash with EX dp so it is still a 50/50, If I OS with tatsu viper can still TK but if I ex Dp she still be able to back dash away. One things for sure this is workable if they end up in the corner.
One thing I’ve yet tried is Oni’s cr mk will it be the same as Ryu / Ken version ?. If it is than it can use to duck under burning kick ambiguous cross-ups.
For the throw safe-jump set up, OS with Tatsu instead. If she backdashes, Tatsu comes out. If she does anything else, nothing will come out and you’ll block.
And yes, cr.mk can be used to go under Burning Kicks.
Oni is free to Akuma.
How so?
No dp fadc sucks when being vortexed.
Short ranged/slow footsie normals.
Shit fireball.
Weak teleport punishment options outside of waiting for it.
It’s very hard to get shit started against Akuma because his mid range options cover so many of yours.
Correct buddy!, you are getting there, this is the feel on fighting against Akuma because apparently after Transforming to stage 2 demon Gouki lost all his teleport or previous skills and became shorter plus fatter lol.
Anyway to fight Akuma you need to use mid range distance outside of his cr HK and st Hk , don’t be shy to jump back just for spacing jet pack out of there. You would want to use F+hp, st lk + fireball, st mk to keep your distance and FA lvl 1 backdash his pokes from that range while fishing for an opening. This is the only way you can kill em. Use Ultra 1 for option selecting his teleport or just to punish with a good read and also use qcfx2 + KKK to anti his vortex shit if he is slow with dive kicks or that stupid wake-up air fireball crossover combo, however be warned that he could use demon palm to land early making you whiff your Ultra1.
I really have to disagree. But I think I feel that way because I used to main Akuma (still do to a degree). When I first started training with Oni, the matchups I focused on the most were mirror/twins/fei/akuma. Mirror because…you just should. Twins because…yeah. Fei because he’s god in arcade edition. And Akuma because I still think he’s the best.
No DP FADC isn’t much of a problem. In any matchup IMHO. Most opponents are going to be busy trying to draw out your SRK which leaves you with more room to take other approaches.
Oni will out-footsie Akuma any day of the week. And I say that with all confidence. Akuma has what? Sweep?
Fireball is pretty shitty. Don’t use them…ever.
I just really disagree that Akuma can deal with Oni at mid-range. I think that’s just a matter of more focused training at that range.
I’m sure you and plenty of others have a range of answers as to why I’m probably wrong but I’m just giving my 2 cents. The Ken matchup is alot worse for me than the Akuma one. But at the same time, I hated the Ken matchup when I was maining Akuma.
#done
@Mr. McCoy, try playing your Akuma and find another guy that plays Oni, do this on Oni at the far st.Hk distance for Akuma, if they block 2hits from st Hk do the following listed below.
1: cr.mk fireball or repeat that kick again
2: st lp and repeat that far st Hk again
3: back dash and repeat that st Hk again
4: walk back a little bit and sweep em with cr Hk
With all the above condition if you get hit even 1 time by Akuma’s st Hk you get comboed into a tatsu + sweep into vortex. Now what if you do manage to get a lucky st lk or st mk to push them away? and guess correctly, the risk reward is in Akuma’s Favor. Running away from that range is the best out of his st HK area. A good akuma will always be a hard match-up for Oni even more so if they wanna turtle you out and only attacks during hard knockdowns.
Oni does not out-footsie Akuma. All of our moves start up too slow and/or are too short range to beat out Akuma’s footsies, many of our moves are easily beat out on reaction (f+MK, f+HP) or just lose flat-out to Akuma’s better moves (cr.MK) . Oni loses the footsie game (though he can contend), and more importantly he loses the ranged / keep away game and loses the knockdown game.
As EQ mentioned, if Akuma runs away and only aggros when he gets a hard knockdown, this match is heavily one-sided. Oni cannot catch Akuma; Akuma is too fast and more importantly his fireballs recover quicker and go full screen. Oh yeah, and he can teleport. Oni is terrible when he is knocked down (large hurtbox, poor backdash, and no FADC on blocked Shoryuken), and Akuma is a character that specializes in knocking opponents down and keeping them down (vortex).
Akuma is literally the embodiment of the strengths that best bring out Oni’s weaknesses, he’s probably our worst matchup. The only way you can beat an Akuma that plays the matchup correctly is by completely outguessing them at nearly every step, or by getting some really hard reads to do large damage to his smaller health/stun pool.
Oni cannot catch Akuma? Really? Because he can teleport? I’m sorry but I strongly disagree. Especially if they are doing wakeup teleports. You can do MK/HK Slash to catch up teleports and close space. I’ll make a bold statement and say that you can even dash in to stay on him. I haven’t tested that fully TBH, but after fighting that matchup alot, I’m confident it’s possible. Yes Akuma does have teleport, but that’s not a solid escape. On any level. If Rufus can Monkey Punch a teleport, I’m sure Oni can close the gap.
All correct. But vortex isn’t unbreakable. It’s just all in knowing how to block the mixup. It’s either going to hit high,low, behind, in front, overhead, or a surprise throw. As long as you understand that you can slowly begin to break the vortex with more success. He can’t do them all at once. I haven’t been hit with dash,dash xx df divekick/palm in quite awhile now. St.FP has a sweet upward hitbox and starts up pretty quick. I’ve been stuffing demon flip setups pretty consistently with it thus far. I know vortex goes beyond that simple setup but I’ve been pretty successful with countering that aspect of it. And what else? X-Tatsu? It’s called reverse blocking. I’m over it.
All that isn’t to say that Oni shouldn’t have problems on knockdown. I’ve fought a ton of matches against Ibuki/Akuma/Deejay and have gotten my ass aggressivley handed to me, but still, the Akuma matchup (really the vortex matchup I’ll say) is very much winnable. Just as it is very much loseable.