Something tells me its going to be like the D.O.N game where they show a cut animation and then super.
just like Super Mario Tennis on the GC? no thanks, it killed that game for me, and so will it here if it will be like that.
I agree with that, D.O.N was fun for a bit, for some reason it got boring fast.
D.O.N was fun but it had so many stupid things like the super system was retarded, I hope Smash don’t change into D.O.N, Smash had dept D.O.N felt shallow…
I wonder sense they are going to have that final smash item will they lower the damage percentage. If it won’t be an instant kill they would have to right?
dude, you got a good point. i’m pretty sure the would. It would be kinda cool having an instant kill, but also overdoing it.
about how many other characters will brawl have?
I totally disagree with instant kills. Now if they were to cut the damage ratio down by 25% and the FS racked up about 40%-50% damge I think it can be done.
Look and if they would just quit fucking with everyone and just put Sonic(could care less) and Tails(my boy!!) in it It would be all good with me. And I pray that this game will be balanced.(which it won’t)
Just my $0.02
well, instant kills should be like gg x2. They should never be so easy.
is there gonna be more characters than melee?
Because Smash isnt a typical fighting game. Its a brawl, its a melee, its a frag-fest
In the most non-offensive way I can put this, You dont get it. Part of Smash is the battle scope of it. The game is much, much more comparable to an FPS. You have a group of players, all setting out to get the most kills, in varied environments, with different resources available at different times.
So, it is a fighting game with its own merits and you want to strip away aspects of it that make the game unique? Like I said, I dont think you get it. You should walk into a Smash match against 3 other people, ready to frag as many as possible, aware that in order to win, you have to eliminate as much randomness as possible by playing better than your opponents and accept the fact that sometimes, you get the bombomb, and sometimes the bombomb gets you.
If everyone knows the rules, knows that there is some environmental events (Stages & Items) to watch out for, then there isnt any Random.
Just look at it as the fight being between you and the world, not just you against your opponent.
Makoto and the Mix-Up Game need to have a few words with you about this statement. 
:tdown:
This thread can’t go for any real length of time without the item debate coming up, can it?
wow…nintendo makes such great games^_^ imagine if they hadnt given us the option to turn on/off items…then we wouldnt even be able to argue about whats better!
Seems to happen every time Sakurai introduces an item. 
I hear the next item is a Pokeball that releases Makoto. She has a 50% chance of punching you in the balls, killing your dog, and then erasing your porn collection.
It’s random as hell.
I swear if the next item was one you needed to start the match someone would make a case about turning it off. Starter Whistle Item = Banned.
Yes. I get that. I never said it was a typical fighting game. In fact, I said the opposite.
I don’t get it? I play Smash pretty regularly, and have been since SSB for n64. I get the scheme of things. I wouldn’t say that it’s comparible to a FPS really. You say that its a group of players all trying to get the most kills in varied environments? Since when does having the most kills matter? I’m pretty sure the main aspect is survival. Yes getting KOs helps survival by eliminating your opponent’s lives, but if a guy loses who has every KO, and only dies by killing himself on accident multiple times…he still loses. I’m pretty sure that KO count doesn’t mean a thing.
Example, I played my friends in a 4 person free for all, 4 stock. By the end of the match, there were two people left, myself and my friend Zack. I had 0 KOs at that moment, and high % on my 2nd life. The kills had gone between the other guys. Zack has one life left and kills himself on accident, thus I win…with 0 kills.
Taking away items does not strip the game of its merits. It certainly doesn’t eliminate its uniqueness. Smash is unique not because of items, but because of its fighting system. You have smash attacks, specials, tilts, aerials, throws, etc. to try to best your opponent. The game is simple enough for a person who has never played it before to pick it up fast, but it’s also complex enough to be able to have good high level play. The % system in opposition to a health bar is also a unique aspect. The way of winning is the most unique part however. You KO them by knocking them off the stage, instead of unconscious. All of these aspects make it the unique game it is, not the fact that you can throw a Pokball at someone and then allow Snorlax to KO them for you.
Here’s an unheard of concept…Perhaps you can walk into a match against 3 others and eliminate them with your own skill? And strategy? Take away the bombomb, you take away things that can give your opponents advantages that are not earned. Anyone can pick up an item and throw it at someone. There are ways to avoid this however, but it still is pretty obvious that there is more that goes into actually earning the KO, opposed to throwing an exploding crate. If Fox is playing against Bowser, he already has a natural advantage and doesn’t need the help of a hammer appearing to KO Bowser (assuming that the Fox player is more skilled of course.) And items certainly don’t help Bowser if he can’t get to them before Fox.
Oh but there is. It all depends on how you view the game I suppose. Some people view the game as just a fun party game to play with friends. They might not mind the items, and in fact probably like them.
Here’s the thing though, there are people who view Smash as a serious fighting game, like we view SF, Marvel etc. They don’t like those particular elements of randomness. And like I said before, can you really blame them if money is on the line? Imagine a competitive Smash match with items on. A money match between Marth Vs Falco just for this example. Both have one life left and the same % (lets say 140ish). Marth comes in to do a smash attack, and lets say it is certain to hit for whatever reason on Falco who is by the ledge. A bombomb pops up and then Marth dies when the smash connects with the bomb. If the bombomb had not appeared, he would have connected and possibly have won the match (and in this case the money.)
Plain and simply, most people do not play Smash with items for this reason. Yes, not everyone plays money matches, but some do. It’s just about matches in general really. Almost everyone I know plays without items. There is a reason to that. They don’t like losing because of some outside force. If they are going to lose they want it to be because they get outplayed, and that is a completely different situation then being screwed over because of a random event.
It’s equivalent in any fighter, or any competitive game. You want to set the game on the most even circumstances to give no outside advantages to anyone. Let the skill of the player decide the outcome. That’s why most matches in Smash take place on stages that are not mobile. Slow characters or characters with bad jumping abilities are outclassed on stages like the Ice Climbers’ stage on Melee. Stages like Final Destination allow for the most even settings, so they make perfect tourney stages. Items can be compared to those stages that allow for advantages. Characters like Peach really don’t need any more advantage than they already have.
Like I said earlier, I suppose it all comes down to how you prefer to play the game. If you want to play with items, feel free, cause you did buy the game after all. Most people don’t want to play with items though, and based upon how Smash has been played since SSB, I really don’t see Brawl being any different. I know that at first I’ll check out what items are available and perhaps even play a few matches with friends with them on. But then we’ll end up turning them off and actually getting down to business.
Yeah Makoto is random. But it’s a different type of random than I was referring to. Doing an attack that perhaps you didn’t want to with Makoto and being KOed BY THE OPPONENT as a result may suck, but it’s not the same as doing an attack and then some outside force kills you, not the opponent.
EDIT: I forgot to add more thoughts I had about the Final Smash. If it is implemented and isn’t a normal item (so it can’t be turned off), hopefully it will have a damage cap and won’t be instant KO. I also hope that a cutscene doesn’t always occur with it, cause I can see that messing up someone’s recovery if they’re trying to get back on the stage.
There’s more than one mode of play, you know. You’re talking about stock. If you’re playing time, than it’s about points. You pretty much have to get KOs to win, unless the other player(s) commit(s) suicide.
Anyway, I’m pretty much neutral towards items. Do I think they should be used in tournament play or money matches? No. Do I think that they’re great for just adding some fun to the game while playing with friends? Definitely.
I’m surprised (but happy) to see so much item love here on srk. Seriously, why try to turn Smash into something it’s not? If I wanted to play SF, I’d play SF. IMO, the randomness makes smash way more fun.
I think this generation, the smash community is going to have a harder time convincing itself to do away with items, because the supers just look so damn cool (and so far, are the only major addition to gameplay that’s been announced.) People are bound to want to use them.
…seriously.
It’s really a discussion about tournaments. Casually you can play however you want. And yeah… items do make the game more fun. Playing Street fighter 2 Turbo on turbo 8 also makes the game “more fun”, but no one would ever want to play a tournament like that.
Tournaments are about minimizing the randomness and having the best player win.
This discussion is pretty pointless, its been done 5million times before and always finishes at the same conclusion.
But, whatever, Brawl is a new game so i guess some things tournament-wise should be revised/refined.
exactly quiche, exactly. I played competitive smash for a good 3 months and was pretty decent. but after a while i realized it really wasn’t fun… items are just part of smash. they’re the soul of smash… if you rip the soul out, the body will still function, but there’s no life there.
:sad: