I just HOPE I’m wrong about Brawl.
If Snake is low-tier it may just piss me off enough to swear off the series forever.
I saw some good things about Snake.
His throws look pretty damn nice.
Also Pit is the one that is going to make half the cast obsolete. :wgrin:
sorry bro…but meta-knight is a easy-mode type character…
who knows maybe this game will have balance…
Snake wouldnt be low-tier…kojima wouldnt be down with that shit…maybe mid…but I will make him top
I don’t think Luigi and Falcon are in danger. Love him or hate him, Luigi is still a major part of the Mario franchise. And who else would represetn f-zero? the rest of the characters really suck.
As far as animal crossing, I don’t expect to see a playable character. All of the worthwhile characters from the series have already been shown in the Smashville stage (Tom Nook, K.K. Slider, Human) or as an AT (Mr. Resetti.)
…seriously.
Was Snake low-tier in Dream Mix TV?
I still haven’t even seen ANYONE who’s even played that game.
It would be quite telling if Nintendo ends up making Snake play fairly similar to his Dream Mix TV version (although in that game, I don’t think he had access to any weapons–besides being able to strap a C4 to his foe).
In that case, it would a lot more feasible to expect Bomberman, Simon Belmont, and maybe even Optimus Prime…
swearing off the series forever? you sound so bitter about getting raped by fox and co and worring if snake will be at least mid or not. chill out, seriously.
why are we back to talkung about tiers again? keep that shit out of here until we see vids/played brawl.
he’s right…our bad…can’t judge anything until you played it
Lets get rid of his fireball instead… Luigi’s tornado was pimpin’
Don’t be too sure of that. From what we have seen she was a crappy recovery. And you are overestimating fast characters. Yes, all of the good characters in Melee were pretty darn fast (with the exception of Peach). However a lot of low tiered characters were fast too… Mewtwo was actually a pretty fast character with decent range on a lot of his attacks and HE WAS SHIT. Zero Suit Samus could end up just as shitty… though I hope not. It looks like this time they are trying to balance slower characters too so maybe it will be different this time around.
btw, Fox had his shine spike in SSB64 version too… except in Melee they made it possible to jump cancel… lol
The people in charge of tournaments aren’t as stuck up and wanting to ban items as much as new comers to the tournament scene… so don’t worry about it.
Woah… people really love Snake. That is just stupid IMO… then again I never played Smash for the characters anyway so I don’t know what it is like.
Dream Mix
I got to play Dream Mix TV at a videogame tourney about a year ago. Snake definetly wasn’t weak, but I can’t say what tier he was as I only got to play it for like 20 minutes.
Woah woah woah!!! Hold the phone here. Fox has always been fast for one, with maybe only Pikachu and CF being slightly faster, and while his Up Smash wasn’t broken like in SSBM his Smashes were all above par.
He’s also by far the best at comboing in SSB64, and can shine spike and laser spam like Falco as well.
Secondly, you sound like HAL is purposely trying to screw Snake over. Blame his initial design if he ends up being low tier. If Kojima wanted to he could put Cyborg Ninja in the game since his/her abilities would fit into Smash’s playstyle much better. Based on the game so far Snake might end up being low mid tier at worst, but we’ll just have to wait and see, won’t we?
Thirdly, why do you care if Final Smashes are banned in tournaments anyways? (which may or may not happen) You have the entire world to play with items competitively on WiFi.
I remember him being weak. Smash 64 tiers changed a lot in the last several years, when originally Yoshi used to be considered tops and Fox was lower-mid. Nowadays, players say the opposite is true.
I don’t know about that, but I haven’t really played Smash 64 in like 5 years so I guess you could defer to them.
I never even implied anything of the sort. I said that they’re imcompetent at balancing their own game, not they go around sabotaging characters.
In both Smash games, the slow-but-powerful character is completely worthless. As are projectile characters (except for the Laser space animals and arguably Samus in Melee). The only exception is Ganondorf who’s kinda mid-tier.
They need to seriously think about giving more advantage to heavier characters and actually have strength mean something. Because right now you have characters like DK and Bowser who are completely worthless because their strength doesn’t matter because they’ll never get a chance to hit somebody and their weight doesn’t matter because they’ll get “Shine Spiked” (ugh, I hate using “Smasher” terms) off the stage at a measly 60%.
Because Smash has the potential to actually be a GOOD tournament game and I want to see it become one. However, it won’t ever be a GOOD tournament game as long as these severe balance issues and dumb rules remain unaddressed.
Secondly, I’m old school and I doubt I would ever use my Wii Wireless Internet connection whenever I actually buy a Wii. In other words, the WiFi connection means nothing to me. So I would play people only face-to-face and in tournaments.
Subspace Emissary Team
That sucks. :arazz:
There is alot of tlak in the smash community of allowing items into tourney play as long as you can turn off random spawning capsules, crates and barrels that explode.
I for one don’t want items in competitive play since I think it just encourages item camping and would cause breaks in the action so players could run for items.
But we won’t know how things turn out in the tourney scene until the game comes out.
People will experiment with different items and different spawn rates and see what works. If no items is what people still want then that’s what is going to happen.
Also, the potential to be a good tourney game?
What is your definition of this?
Cuz right now the SSB series is doing damn good job in that department.
It has 100 man tournies about once a month.
It’s in EVO.
Arguably the best player Ken Hoang was featured in Game Informer, I believe in the article the “Worlds most dangerous gamers”. Can’t even remember if thats the right name of the article or the magazine. W/e just wiki Ken Hoang and see for yourself.
A sequel is coming out that has people drolling all over the world.
People are constantly coming into the tourney scene and new talent is always rising up.
Nintendo itself acknowledged the high level playing community in a series of articles in Nintendo Power magazine.
So, I’m curious as to what you mean Return of Shiki.
None of those things denotes a GOOD tournament game. Those things denote a SUCCESSFUL tournament game.
Success and popularity do not equate to quality.
Smash is a very fun and good game casually. Smash is very successful in tournament play.
That does not mean Smash is a GOOD tournament game.
Ok, then elaborate.
Because usally when somthing is good it tends to be successful. But one does not neccessarily lead to the other.
So what makes a good tourney game?
I mean if you are talking about balance issues here you will get no argument from me. The SSB series is pure broken cheese.
Most games stop being ‘good’ at high levels. Once we start abusing the strongest character’s most broken shit, thats all you end up seeing for years.
Well it also depends if people like playing broken bull shit like mvc2.
I don’t have as great comprehension on what makes game have “good” high-level play as I do of what makes a “bad” high-level game.
In other words: “I couldn’t describe it, but I know what it is when I see it”.
So the question should be “what makes a BAD tourney game” in which case I shall defer to Sirlin:
So you must ask yourself:
–Does Smash have poor balance?
–Does Smash have slipshod implementation?
–Does Smash have bugs which are seriously detrimental to the gameplay?
This answer is incomplete, since the same could be said for Marvel (if not ALL major fighting games today).
So you must also ask: “Does this game have enough depth and fun to be able to make up for these shortcomings?”.
So in that case, I would say that Marvel has extreme depth AND is fun to watch at high-level. I can’t say the same for high-level Smash.
Coming to this conclusion based on the parameters above doesn’t honestly mean anything. You are trying to define a tournament game and what makes it good. The simple truth though, is that Smash has quite a lot of hardcore representation in both Japan, the US and everywhere else. The game is played competitively by those people and people will travel to different countries to play others. I’d say that alone is enough.
All you’ve proved is that you do not enjoy Smash as a spectator, and why would you? You don’t give any respect to the skills needed to be that competitive in the game. I find MvC2 entirely boring to watch for the exact same reason.
Really? You don’t find high-level Smash fun to watch? I concede that it’s not for everyone, but I can enjoy, say, high-level Melty Blood even though I have no idea what’s really going on.
Also, Shiki, I completely agree with you on the point that slower characters are generally worthless in Smash, and I hope for that to change. I too am tired of watching the same five characters win tournaments.