Street Fighter Issue Seven Speculation and Spoiler Thread

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41

Interesting. I don’t think much of that idea, although I’m not the most authoratitive voice on Japanese culture to say the least. As there is no official word I think that there is little that can be said. Mind you, can you explain the other ‘Dolls’ then. Are they clones as well? I still think that the meaning of ‘clone’ they must be refering to is genetic modification.

Both defintions that you have given here (Bio and SciFi) suggest that the clone is a replica even if the method used to achieve it is different. Often the step in SciFi where DNA is used it implicitly sugests that a Zygote has been injected by the exact DNA that has been extracted from tissue or hair etc. Basically, cloning is always seen as creating replicas which ever way you look at it, and which ever way you achieve it…

Mohammed Ali

42

But aren’t the talks of people in the future creating babies without the defects their parents had still called cloning? I believe our definiton of cloning as opposed to the Science Fiction one just means creating life outside of people having Sex(or without the use of bodies at all so that leaves out Artificial insemination.) The perfect Replica thing is unecesary if you have a baby that can’t catch colds where the original could.

The other Dolls are not clones, they are 12 kidnapped Girls.

43

While I do not necessarily disagree with your general point, I will have to disclaim that I have analyzed the Street Fighter plotline and all official sources and books VERY thoroughly with the help of many very good friends who speak Japanese over the course of several years painfully combing through games (including Japanese versions), official sources and publications and arcade fliers and even looking through Japanese fansites to see what the Japanese populous as a whole have been able to pick up, and there is absolutely NO WAY WHATSOEVER that “clone” was not the intended word for Cammy by Capcom of Japan and for the official storyline.

Now, that of course has nothing to do with whether or not “clone” was the right word for Capcom to use in the first place.

EDIT: Oh yea, just in case anyone is mistaken, Rose and the Dolls (besides Cammy) are definately not clones. Rose has her own nationality, and sharing the same soul as Bison does not really meet the definition of clone in whatever sense Capcom wanted to use it in (Cammy’s called a clone but she does NOT share Bison’s soul. …well, one can argue that maybe she does after SFA3 but before SFA3 she certainly didn’t). I only brought Rose up for the sake of argument because there was a slight possibility that Cammy as a clone of Bison is really a clone of Rose, instead (although as I’ve pointed out, that’s almost definately not true, since Cammy looks nothing like Rose).

And all the other Dolls, besides Cammy, of course, are obviously kidnapped then brainwashed as shown by Thunder Hawk, and it is important to note that SFA3 NEVER refers to any of the Dolls BUT Cammy as clones anywhere within any game or official source.

Bah, I blame Stefan and his pulling random made-up info out of his ass for this whole “Cammy is just a brainwashed girl like the rest of the Dolls with DNA infusion!” crap going around. If the Dolls were really so close to Cammy in terms of how they were created, they would have been called clones just like Cammy was.

44

TiamatRoar - Thanks. For a second there I felt like the ignored boy crying wolf or something! :cool:

45

I think we are both arguing the smae point here. What I am saying is that even if Capcom intentionally used the word clone, it doesn’t mean that she has the same DNA structure as Vega (clear from her physical appearence) - the correct definition of clone. It’s similar to me saying Guile does a ‘Hadoken’. By definiton it is wrong as a hadoken stricly speaking is a ball like projectile, even though there may be some similarities with the Sonic Boom. Nonetheless, such use of language is incorrect even if the conitations were partly implicit in the word. For me to say that Guile does a Hadoken is false even if I insist its true and something similar occurs with what is really his Sonic Boom. Sorry for stressing the point but I’m not sure if I’m being clear.

So is it not possible that this redefining of clone could mean nothing more than genetic alteration? There may be no evidence to support it but also none to discredit either. The only thing that may stand it is the word clone - and as that is used here in a way that is clearly contradictory to the actual meaning, it can only suggest that the word clone can mean anything related to its actual meaning - genetic modification inclusive.

P.S. What do you think of my Donovan theory???

Mohammed Ali

46

No, this is called genetic enhancement. A clone is an exact copy. It’s an unabiguous word last I checked.

Not true, creating life outside of sex is not cloning, although cloning is often creating life outside of sex.

Mohammed Ali

47

You mean Anita as Rose? In the beginning it looked like Capcom was leaning towards it but I don’t think they are anymore, given the Timelines don’t fit anymore, not that Capcom’s been good with timelines anyway.

Well, if she was in fact Anita who turned out to be one of the most powerful characters in Darkstalkers (And Darkstalker characters are WAY beyond Street Fighter’s strength) I can’t see her being defeated by Vega. Yes, Vega is very powerful for an SFer, but I don’t think he’s THAT strong to take out an adult character from the Darkstalker world.

48

What you call genetic enhancment my Daily Newspaper calls cloning. And it’s still not what Sci Fi calls cloning.

The second point about creating life outside of Sex - are we actually disagreeing? Aren’t we saying the same thing but wording it differently? You can be right if you want, I don’t want to talk about this anymore! It’s time to go home and catch Days of our Lives!
:smiley: :

49

See, my theory was that Anita/Rose was originaly emotionless and always behind the protection of Donovan. Donovan had a major conflict in him. He was half evil and half good. I think that he died and his powers ensited emotion and power into Rose from his good half, whilst his bad half ended up manafesting in Vega. That is why they are very level in this sence. I think Vega is a lot more powerful than you give him credit for in SFA series. No one can touch him. I think he’s give some of the darkstalkers a run for their money. Anyway, Rose eventually sacrifices her life to bring Vega down with the help of Chun-li but only manages to reduce his power.

Thats my take on the whole thing, but its just a theory…

Mohammed Ali

50

Hmm… I’m trying to remember if they said Cammy had the same DNA or not. goes to check

Ah, here we go.

From SFA3

11th Stage Boss: M.Bison

M.Bison:
Impressive! Most impressive!!
M.Bison:
But it’s just to annoying to see a mere copy of myself.
Cammy:
A copy?! Am I… A copy… of Master Bison…?!
M.Bison:
That’s right. We have the same DNA. You’re only a copy of me.
Cammy:
!!
M.Bison:
But, you are a worthless defect! And now I will break you!

From Vega’s ending

[M.Bison frowning]
Vega… You are making a vital mistake…
That girl… is a human weapon with the same DNA as myself…
Losing control will cause the “Psycho Drive” to run wild and…

From Street Fighter 2 Revival:

“Listen to me, my little Cammy. You are just a copy generated from my DNA!”

Soooooo… yea. I’m pretty sure Capcom’s intentions are clear, even if it makes no logical scientific sense :sweat:

But… what’s really ironic is that at this moment, I’m having trouble tracking down the word “clone” instead of “copy”. “Copy” by itself makes even less sense than “clone” does.

51

To have the same DNA may suggest that certain aspects are the same - like a father and son have the same DNA to a certain point. This idea is cleared up in the next bit of info taken from Revival (The most Canon of SF2 type games).

The Key word here is ‘generated’. It suggests that it was derived from Vegas DNA. This is taken, as you said - straight out of the game…

This leads to 2 possibilities…

  1. Cammy was an abducted girl whos DNA was infused with that of Vegas.
  2. Cammy was solely created via clever use of the manipulation of Vegas DNA - this explination makes it hard to determine why she looks so different from Vega though. There is clearly different DNA in Cammys body that for example doesn’t give her a bum chin.

I don’t think Capcom have been explicit enough with which it is - at least I’m not convinced. Any further thoughts. Other critics of the Donovan theory (there must be some)

Mohammed Ali

52

If an egg is infused with sperm it is still fertilization. In diploid organisms, sperm is haploid (and so is the egg). It does not carry all the geneitic information that somatic (body) tissue does; thus it can’t clone an entire organism. Dolly was made by infusing udder cells (not gametes) in an egg with no nucleus, for instance.

Like video games, news media doesn’t always use the terms accurately. You are right, if we are talking about manually fertilizing an egg in a test tube this is not cloning. This is still fertilization.

The offspring of asexual organisms are referred to as clones, but they are replicas of the original, 100% identical gentically. The process is not referred to as cloning though, it is called parthenogenesis (that is eggs develop without fertilization). This is different than somatic tissue becoming a full organism. Should a baby be unable to catch cold but the original could when present in the exact environment (i.e., assuming complete genetic basis for immunity), it is not a clone, there must be dfiferences in the genome between the two babies to account for the immunity.

I agree that with the word “generated” it is still ambiguous what how Cammy was formed. This seems to imply that she was a clone like Dolly or I suppose “generated” by regular sex, though that may be streching the word a bit. “Generated” doesn’t seem to me a good word to use if she were modifified/enhanced/augmented with Vega’s DNA. Maybe Capcom did mean her to be a clone like Dolly was a clone.

As for the Anita/Rose thing, it’s a cool theory, but I don’t think the Vampire series and SF are connected in any way. I could be wrong though.

As far as the whole Vega split in two people thing, here’s my theory. Vega is one soul that inhabits one body. A complete soul has a “good” side and a “bad” side and other sides too i guess (playful, sad…). To master Psycho Power he had to exile the “good” side of his soul, but this side was a “large” enough part of a soul that it could inhabit a body and work as a full soul. The good side of the sould found a new life inhabit somehow and the baby developed to be Rose. This way Rose is still Vega’s soul as Vega but is an entirely different person. Weird, I know, but what do you guys think?

53

Vega is no where near the level of any of the Darkstalkers. In the Darkstalker world, all humans are given a Rating, (Let’s say B for example, the exact terms escape me) and are not on the level of high level Darkstalkers. Especially one such as Anita who is one of the strongest Darkstalkers at that. Like I said, Vega is not 100% Human Being, but he’s still not on Darkstalker level.

Think of it this way. What is the worst thing someone from the Street Fighter World can do against, say, Demitri. Perform the Shun Goku Satsu to send him to Hell for one second? HE’S FROM THE MAKAI WHICH IS A HELL DIMENSION. Instead of the Demons attacking him, they’ll probably slap him five. Darkstalkers own SFers for free.

Me, personally I tend to feel that Vega and Rose were one, and when they seperated, the Rose that appeared (On her birthday) looked fairly like our Rose. If it happened another way, you’d have to explain Vega tracking down this baby to train it, and he did train Rose.

While such a concept of one person splitting in two maybe a strange concept to some, it is very common in Japanese Movies, Anime, and Manga. Quicky examples -

Dragon Ball Z - Piccolo pretty much did the same exact thing.

Sadako of the Ring Movies - One person split into two. One Sadako grew up to lead a regular Teenage life, the other remained frozen at a young age and Evil at that. Later the two combined into one.

Berg Katse of Gachaman (AKA G-Force, Battle of the Planets, etc. Leader of Galactor.) Sosai X took two twins in a mother’s womb and combined them to give BK a high IQ. Sometimes he was Male, sometimes he’d morph into female.

X (1999) - The Anime not only reveals that Kamui and Fuma are the same person because of fate, they later combine into one.

There are other examples, but these are the ones that pop into my head at the moment.

54

Darkstalkers owns every fighting game in exitence for Free.

Demitri Maximoff is the most powerful vampire in fiction

Belial owns almost anyone for free he’s that damn powerful.

when you got a character that can make the Eva’s, Goku, Lina Inverse, OWAW super man and the silver surfer pee in their pants it’s this guy.

55

Even a lower class Darkstalker has been officially stated to be able to beat an entire squad of armed elite marines singlehandedly.

56

Humans lost in the Makai are classified as Class C in the Darkstalker World and are turned into slaves. Check Saiki’s Darkstalker Plot Guide over at Gamefaqs for more info.

57

People who can beat entire squad of armed elite marines singlehandedly

1 Potmekin ( human)

2 Sol bad guy ( Gear)

3 Krillin ( human)

4 Gill

5 Takuma ( Human)

6 Kliff Underson ( human)

7 akuma/Shin akuma ( human but come on he can destory moutains and sink islands and stay in deep ocean for cryout loud.

8 Oro ( Human )

58

Can’t a number of the better Street Fighters do this too? I like DS but don’t you think that say Felicia would have difficulty in fighting M.Bison?

59

Beat a squad of Marines, yes the SFers can do that. With one hand - No.

Felicia gets no props because she has that innocent look, and that unnoficial Anime sure didn’t help. Just the fact that she can hang in there with the other Darkstalkers proves that she’s very very strong. Difficulty fighting Vega? Maybe. But she wouldn’t loose. Felicia is either a Class B or a Class B+ Darkstalker. They still own Human Beings and whatever the heck Vega is for free.

60

doesn’t akuma use one hand to destory a mountain and isn’t a mountain a lot tougher than a entire squad of elite Marines !?!

it’s a freaking Mountain for cryout loud a Mountain

a Mountain is thousand times greater then a sqaud of armed marines

I mean couldn’t akuma using his Kongou-kokuretsuzan wipe out 100 armed marines singlehandedly

it’s not like they have anything to protect against a guy who can destroy mountains with one punch.

Mountain is 100000> than a squad of armed marines.