it seems like every char in SF4 has an obvious bad matchup except the Shoto’s and Sagat
could someone please comment on this
I guess Seth doesnt either, unless u account for his health just generally bringing him lower
HAV: Have you ever done a list of what you think abels matchups currently are?
I’d love to see it, and thanks by the way for the detailed post explaining your thinking earlier, it was exactly what I was trying to figure out!
I’d also like to juice’s matchup opinions too. (I know matchup lists are somewhat subjective based on the quality of players you typically run into, but you guys have insight on the competitive scene that I don’t, but i’m very curious about)
When ryu has ultra, i’ll bait for that hp srk (in general) that they want to fadc into ultra, of course it takes practice to bait(either by safe jumps block,dash, dash ex roll etc) against a shoto but I know that its possible and making a shoto whiffs a srk = massive punish and they cant fadc(they can if blocked though).
On the other hand, if i have an ultra, i’ll just be prepared to catch them if they jump in with my cr.hp into ultra(im able to hit anti air cr.hp 90% of the time now, its not that hard), heck even a trade(in general) = ultra, and abel’s ultra damage > ryu’s.
Some people are just too stubborn with wanting falling sky to be SRK-like AA while we have all the tools to deal with all kinds of jump ins. Just know your moves, practice your execution and get a lot of match experience against player on your level or above.
“I would rather take my chances with 2nd hit cr.fp than a decent falling sky because it does tonnes more damage.”
With practice you can make it almost sure that you can catch someone with an anti air cr.hp, its not a move that you just pray and hope will hit, you KNOW that it’ll hit.
agree 100%
I didn’t realize that Abel had good anti-airs until I played Strider and tried my usual strat against Abel… jump in a bunch to keep up the pressure… and I got anti-aired every time. 220 damage for jumping in is pretty damn bad. Its not as easy as a shoryuken, but it is still very effective.
A) That’s the problem with srk everyone’s got to be some body…get over yourself 
B) I have absolutely no idea what the fuck you’re talking about :tdown:
seeing Juicebox say Abel has bad matchups vs Ken and Guile makes me feel better
You definitely have to be somebody before you start cracking wise with somebody that’s actually done shit. Win a couple tournaments before you start talking.
Anyway, I listed my match-up opinions a couple months ago in the F it I’ll Just Main Sagat thread.
HAV: this is what I found in that thread. You wrote this on May 7. Is your opinion the same today? Has playing with JWong done anything to change your mind at all? What about Evo (regarding existence of console characters)? Do you think Abel is better or worse or the same now?
"Abel definitely doesn’t go 5-5 with almost everyone. I think he goes 4-6 with Ryu, Rog, Chun, and Ken. 3.5-6.5 with Akuma, Bison and maybe Rufus (that might be 4-6). 3-7 with Gief.
I only see Abel as 5-5 with Sagat, Viper, Sim and maybe Blanka. Maybe Honda too, though that may be 5.5-4.5, Abel.
I think Abel beats Fuerte, Guile, and Vega. Whoopee!
Console characters don’t exist in my world."
btw, I’m sorry it must feel like I’m the spanish inquisition with all these constant questions, it’s just that I really like hearing your opinions because 1) they are based on real tournament experience, and 2) you actually think about what you’re saying most of the time which is so rare to find on the internet.
a special move which is only usefull as a combo ender is a waste of animation.
And i love to play you ppl who think cr.fp and cr.mk is the shit.
are you seriously comparing 3s to sf4 which entirely different gamechanics than sf4
who does wake up moves in 3s ?
do you know what a parry is ?
funny you should mention zangief who destroys Abel. Why ? because his normals suck and he gets free jumpins. Every move abel throws out gets beaten.
akuma rufus cammy and dictator also own him
If the ppl in the abel forums needed to win tournaments before the could discuss things. this place would be dead.
It’s been almost 3 months since that post, so a lot of my thoughts have matured, somewhat. Still, I generally feel the same. I think the Sagat fight is 4.5-5.5 now. Other than that, it’s pretty much the same.
As for console characters, what I meant before is that I didn’t have the experience to score the fights. I still don’t, honestly. I have a decent amount of experience against Jibbo’s Gen… but we both seem to come up with all sorts of new shit every match, so I’m still not ready to score it. Juice can probably give insight on the Sakura match.
As for Justin, I haven’t even seen him since then, IIRC, so nothing new from him…
Ugh. Sabre’s got skills.
In actuality, the matchup is almost identical to Ryu’s except that her rushdown is much more potent with her 3-frame jab and easy-as-hell link into cr.HP xx shunpukyaku.
Tick throws are an issue. She can walk up and cr.HP any non-blocking response you may have except for EX TT, but of course good players will bait that out at some point in the match.
A good sakura will throw fireballs from full-screen and at mid-range space you with cr.MK and st.HK.
In this matchup, cr.MK is USELESS as anti-air because her j.HK (both neutral and angled) beat it for free. Best to block, roll under, or j.HP against those jump-ins.
When it appears as though she’s going for a crossup, remember that a well-timed j.HP or j.HK will still hit you in your front, making her crossup game very dangerous. If you get knocked down and she jumps at you, burn the meter and EX roll away.
Keep in mind that her invincible reversal is EX uppercut, normal version is completely hittable/throwable. If she has no meter and you knock her down, rush her to hell, just like the Chun and Rose matchups.
Be aware of her mixup potential if you do eat an EX shunpukyaku.
Matches with Sabre’s Sakura. Ignore my dumbass attempts at low finish :mad:
Keep track of how Sabre deals with my rushdown and come up with your own counters. I was the winner and he was the loser in our grand finals sets (in the bracket).
[media=youtube]vds6f5bdtbM&feature=channel[/media]
[media=youtube]D9u_t_AQqfA&feature=channel[/media]
JUICE:
thanks for posting those, great vids.
I’ve seen Hav’s now, and sort of bustas, but what about your matchups currently? I know it’s just your opinion but I like hearing it anyway.
also, Hav said his hasn’t changed much in the past few months, do you feel like yours change regularly or have they been fairly static for the past while?
I just like to get a feel for how fluid these things can be at this stage in a games life.
HAV: you said that when you play jibbo you both come up with new things, are those the type of things that are particular to that matchup (abel v gen), or do you mean that there is still alot more to learn about ALL the characters which might change how later matchups are viewed?
I think a lot of the matches are still fairly fluid… in that, the way the matches are played is changing. The results? Not so much.
There’s still much to be learned, in general, but I was speaking more about the Abel/Gen fight, and also just the Me v. Jibbo fight. We’re both pretty unique players, and we’re both able to come up with new shit on the fly… so it makes it hard to solidify the match. Unfortunately, I haven’t played him as much as I’d like. Whenever we’re in the same place, we don’t seem to get that many matches in.
I agree with those in the thread that think Abel already has a great deal of tools at his disposal as is. However if I had to suggest some things:
-
I don’t see the point of his crouching jab/short standing fierce link. A single jab is kind of hard to button confirm and the entire setup seems too situational to make any kind of difference in the match. Maybe if i could easily and consistently have two pokes before the standing fierce though… But then again as mentioned abel can do high damage from many situations already anyway.
-
something else to deal with characters with way more reach than him. To explain further; I was talking to Kreymore (much respect), an impressive Abel player from the matches I saw him play about the Sagat matchup. To me it seemed too hard to get in because he can counter roll with standing H.K which would also beat focus and in some case ex cod. Options on the whole just seem too dangerous. So maybe changing a normal in some way that could bait/allow for frame traps to counter that kind of thing.
-
HAV stated crouching fierce to always pop opponents. I don’t entirely agree but definitely if it were slightly easier to do (make first hit end earlier on maybe?)
I’m still clearly learning this game though and I don’t think these suggestions would even be considered by CAPCOM in the end but I think it makes for nice discussion that may help how we currently play Abel (understanding his shortcomings)
Finally, in the case of f.mk to standing fierce… I really think those complaining about its difficulty should practice it/ learn plinking/ double tapping/ hitting standing fierce and m.p almost simultaneously/whatever you want to call it. making that link easier would make playing abel too easy in terms of fishing for those opportunities and not exploiting other options.
I didn’t say I need low fierce to always pop.
I mean, if I hit it on the ground… at point blank… I should get my fucking 2 hits every time.
ooooh like against ryu etc. Gotcha hahaha I didn’t even think about that. my bad.
If I have anything else to say i’ll be sure to run it by you first :lame:
ultra in corner works the same as not in corner would be nice
a little more range on close standing med would be cool for his cr. jab standing med link.
more damage on his overhead would give me more incentive to use it not only for stun.
maybe a lariet and a tiger knee, too.
this thread is somehow turning into what people WANT for abel. which is what I specifically asked people NOT to say at the beginning. I realize fantasy is better for some people than speculation, but there is already a thread for people to fantasize about giving abel new moves.
Ryu’s below average in that regard… but I really want it to work better against Balrog, and especially fuckin Fuerte. Focus crumpling Fuerte and then having the launch on c.fp miss is complete BS.