Street Fighter 4 Dash - Abel

[sakeido]

I agree with those in the thread that think Abel already has a great deal of tools at his disposal as is. However if I had to suggest some things:

1. I don’t see the point of his crouching jab/short standing fierce link. A single jab is kind of hard to button confirm and the entire setup seems too situational to make any kind of difference in the match. Maybe if i could easily and consistently have two pokes before the standing fierce though… But then again as mentioned abel can do high damage from many situations already anyway.

One extra button is better than nothing. The low short to standing fierce is especially valuable… if you can do that consistently, you are golden. A combo into ultra off a short is pretty badass. Ultra off a low attack, especially, is awesome to have… say you have done f+mk, standing close roundhouse a few times to land the overhead. Now he is blocking high after f+mk… then you bust out low short, standing fierce, cod, ultra. Not many characters can do that.

Abel’s only real hit confirm combo I’d say is low short, low jab, standing strong xx change of direction… only works against crouching opponents and I’m betting it is character specific, otherwise you get low short, low jab, standing far strong… still combos.

2. something else to deal with characters with way more reach than him. To explain further; I was talking to Kreymore (much respect), an impressive Abel player from the matches I saw him play about the Sagat matchup. To me it seemed too hard to get in because he can counter roll with standing H.K which would also beat focus and in some case ex cod. Options on the whole just seem too dangerous. So maybe changing a normal in some way that could bait/allow for frame traps to counter that kind of thing.

taking one startup frame off crouching mk or mp might work for this, gives better counter-poke options. If anything, c.mk would get that buff… if c.mp was 6 frame startup, you could hit confirm into ultra. c.lk, c.lp, c.lp, c.mp xx change of direction FADC c.fp. That would be fucking awesome but I just don’t see Abel ever having that option.

Finally, in the case of f.mk to standing fierce… I really think those complaining about its difficulty should practice it/ learn plinking/ double tapping/ hitting standing fierce and m.p almost simultaneously/whatever you want to call it. making that link easier would make playing abel too easy in terms of fishing for those opportunities and not exploiting other options.

IMO you don’t even need to be great at that combo. F+MK is never a guaranteed combo but it is a nasty frame trap… you get so many counter hits off it, its not even funny. on CH the 1 frame link becomes a 4 frame link, no big deal at all anymore… that is easy shit, just as easy as Honda’s fierce hands, standing roundhouse.

[entrerix]

anyone think the new version might get announced at tougeki?

I bet it’s an arcade update at the end of the year, including all the console chars plus t.hawk, deejay, and two new chars (or maybe people from other capcom games)

the console version probably won’t be out until next march.

[Brainsplitter]

“Abel’s already a very scary character.”

tell that to the bear wrestler.

HAHA my pokes beat all your pokes!

HAHA my SPD do more damge than TT.

HAHA Your wake up game sucks, your dead meat to larait and spd mixups!

HAHA you want to keep away with wheel kick? F**k that shit, i do ex green hand!

HAHA your TT beat all my moves, OH NO IM LYING DOWN AND ALL YOUR MOVES BEAT MINE, WHAT CAN I DO, PSHYCE! (jumps), ULTRA WITH MASSIVE DMG B**CH!!

[entrerix]

sounds like somebody’s got a case of the mondays

edit: seriously though gief IS really hard for abel, but at my skill level he’s not much harder than vega so what do i know.

it all comes to the person using the char when I’m fighting, I’ve beaten zangief several times.

[Yankeeblugenes]

Then I assume youve never played a good zangief. Because just a proficient zangief player can and will make your life a living hell.

[HAV]

Everyone’s beaten Gief several times. When I posted up my player data a while ago, I had like a 50-something percent win ratio against Gief. But that just comes from me being way better than the Gief’s I’ve been playing. Zangief rapes Abel free. Bottom line.

[entrerix]

HAV you must have at some point beaten an equally skilled player who used zangief right?

not once has that happened? or is the ratio really awful like 8-2 or something?

I mean, don’t get me wrong, i’d like it if that matchup felt less one sided, but it doesnt seem TOTALLY broken right?

I’m probably wrong though, I remember reading your thoughts on giefs pokes v abels pokes and it was pretty depressing

for the record, giefs kill me ALL THE TIME, but so does every other character so i’ve got no place to judge anything

[calvinL]

With any zangief I feel like I have to play a perfect footsy and zoning game with Abel’s godawful normals and sometimes wheel kick if they’re dumb enough to eat those. Once I whiff a move and make a mistake, he gets in for free and does his SPD/Lariat mix up, both of which makes me eat massive damage. I hit him with like 3-4 s. mp and a few s. lk and he makes it up easily once he gets in once, and it’ll continue unless I guess right to get out.

I’m pretty sure the matchup gets worse as both players know the matchup better. My win rate online is like +60% with all other chars except for Zangief, whos at like 30%.

Alright, theres my obligatory Zangief rant in the Abel forums .

[HAV]

The match is just really shitty. I’ve only played one… maybe two Giefs I would consider to be similar in skill. I can win games, of course, but it’s really just stupidly hard.

[Brainsplitter]

i mean, how could they fuck up so bad?

capcom discussing matchups…

• oh! giefs pokes beat all abel pokes…

• i know! we give him a wheel kick so he can stay out of his reach!

• but doesn’t ex glove go through that though, AND you can do it on reaction?

• i know! he can mix up the wheel kick by taking gief down, and whe will make abels TT beat ALL his moves! MUHAHAHA

• but what if he jumps?

• what?

• but what if he JUMPS! he could counter with his spd lariat…even ULTRA, the 2nd most STRONGEST ULTRA IN THE GAME!!

• yeah but he could do a ex falling sky then!

• so he’s gonna have to guess, when gief has more health than abel has and if he ghuesses wrong, well then abels gonna then die instantly or he will get to the ground, and he’s not coming up from there with lariat and spd spam…

• go to hell, i do whatever i want…

[The_Juicebox_Abel]

I use st.MP a lot in the Gief matchup. It can get tripped or EX handed if you do it too much, but at least it can sometimes beat his st.MP.

Since this is the “SF4 dash” thread, I’ve been thinking. How bad would it be if he could special cancel his st.MP?

Canceling into wheel kick won’t combo. (It’ll catch people who block low too much, but this is the same as cr.MP into wheel kick so it’s not really new)

Canceling into tornado obviously won’t combo.

Canceling into roll provides another shenanigan, but one that is nearly identical to cr.MP xx roll (nothing really gained)

Canceling into LP CoD: how bad would it be?

Well, that would allow this combo: cr.LK, cr.LP, cr.LP, link st.MP xx CoD, which would do about 200 damage (my math may be wrong) and doesn’t allow for crossups afterwards. It allows mixups from the front though.

It would allow him to get Ultra off of a cr.LK, but the Ultra would do CRAP damage, being the 7th move in the combo. The full combo would do about 369 damage total with a full revenge meter.

If you go for the mixup, (cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.lp, st.mp xx lp cod, cr.hp xx roll, st.hp xx roll) you’ll do about 231 damage.

So let’s add up these new possibilities. With a special cancellable st.mp, any jab or short will give Abel one of these rewards:

lp cod into finish mid

• about 200 damage + mixup

lp cod into juggle

• about 231 damage + mixup

lp cod into ultra

• about 369 damage + mixup

Is this too much for Abel? I’m torn in half over it. It may, it may not. Obviously, most other characters already have this and even more. But Abel is a grappler. Should any grappler get this much for a light kick or punch?

The primary overall effect of this change would be that Abel in your face is a tiny bit scarier than he currently is. Currently, 4 light ticks does about 120 damage and you’re still in dash range, able to perform mixups. Should ticks give you 200-ish instead?

I think, after all that math, that making Abel just a tiny bit scarier up close is not going to make him much more powerful than he currently is. But it helps his game in a non-trivial fashion.

:chainsaw:

EDIT: I just realized that he might be able to cancel into MP cod as well. This would add about 20 damage to each of those combos. I still think it’d be fine.

[sakeido]

I think not being able to cancel a far normal is a universal thing in this game though, a design choice they made… I can’t think of anyone who cancel a far normal into anything.

[entrerix]

the sweep isnt a far normal i guess cause its a crouch?

abel already has the roll , no one else has that, so I don’t see why they couldnt make the change to this based on “no one else has one”

if its too powerful otherwise though?

I dunno, I leave to the experts…

[The_Juicebox_Abel]

I think not being able to cancel a far normal is a universal thing in this game though, a design choice they made… I can’t think of anyone who cancel a far normal into anything.

LOL totally went over my head. Forget I said anything

[Brainsplitter]

actually i think this match whould be dead even if abel’s wheel kick can’t get hit by the ex green hand though.

[HAV]

No. :nono:

[Devil-Trigger]

actually i think this match whould be dead even if abel’s wheel kick can’t get hit by the ex green hand though.

i go in Giedf fights wishing they spam green hand. that move is hardly the reason Gief >>> Abel so much.

[System_1]

I’m not sure there’s anything Capcom could do to make the gief matchup easier without making him too strong. Like HAV says, it’s not dead impossible to beat a zangief, you have to have patience. Although I would love too see Abel’s ultra beat lariat flat (^_^). I would like a new super combo animation. What about a takedown to ground-and-pound la Sean? I think the current one is pretty boring but maybe that’s just me.

The topic? Oh yeah, +1 one on the sweep. I can’t say I’m really using it nearly as much as I should. I think it could be a reasonable improvement too. But let’s get real here, if all the characters would need to compete with the toptiers, then we would end up with an inverted tierlist with Gen and Claw at the top because they “needed” the most improvements. At least we’re seeing Abel in Gamestop finals, top 10 on the japanese arcade and so on. That’s more than I can say about for example Fei Long and Blankas. I think there’s still more to explore when it comes to Abel. The console version has been out for 6 months, I don’t wanna believe anyone “mastered” Abel yet.

[Anti-Hero]

i wish abel could attack after the first hit of a lariat, like smaller chars can

[sakeido]

I wish Abel’s rekka worked like Fei Long’s with qcf+p or k instead of just p or k. So many times I hit with the first hit of CoD, wait awhile, then tap jab so I can do a tick setup and fucking the second hit of CoD comes out because I’m in the last couple frames of CoD… or you anti-air someone with it, and then you can do EX FS or ultra, except he does on to the second hit, and since you can tech a CoD knockdown you get smoked…

That plus just make the whole animation faster. I get sick of watching it because it is so slow and boring.