I’m not hating Coth, just saying that I don’t really get what people see in that game. The engine feels sloppy (still) and the music/graphics are garbage. There’s nothing that makes me want to play it, unlike 3S because I love the art and music and unbalanced as it is, the engine feels good.
As I’ve said in my blog, I played IV for around a month almost daily, and again with SSFIV but it just feels bad in comparison with ST/HDR. I keep coming back to the fact that risk/reward is so skewed that it’s better to turtle and jab, jab special occasionally.
As for the combos, I’ve always adhered to keep it simple. I try to find the best tradeoff of damage and executional complexity. So for example I’d rather do a 3 hit for 25% damage than a 6 hit for 30% (I’m guessing at figures, but damage scaling etc.) Although I don’t play in tournaments, one of the things I try to do is be consistent, and although I can do longer combos, I stick with the basics that I know I won’t drop.
I guess you can look at it whatever way you want. Some will say focusing makes the game deeper, but for me it’s the opposite because it’s an easymode way to escape fireball/zoning traps.
All I can say is that IV has a higher creativity potential for combos. But that doesn’t necessarily translate to a fun, good or balanced game.
Eh, yeah, I’m not too big on the Focus Attacks - it really makes projectiles half-worthless. You can still use them to zone but neutral jumps are REALLY easy and opponents can FA in a corner. Then again, I feel I need to give the game alot more time (minus the fact I played 80 hours of Vanilla).
EDIT: Totally agree, Zero. I main Akuma, right, and I’m afraid to do anything complex. I know that the other guy is mashing those reversals like crazy so I stick to very simple stuff. Kills creativity and flashiness, I play like a total coward. Akuma also has the lowest health, you can only imagine how boring my matches are.
Noriega, your perfect fighter sounds like SSIV HD Remix LOL
Huge reversal window and easier inputs? Fine I say. Let the noobs have them. I don’t want them to excuse their controller or the difficulty of the game. Who cares if they reverse easily? It just makes the kill more satisfying when you know that your prey has a better chance to fight back LOL
Still prefer HD Remix though, but I do like SSFIV.
Your two last paragraphs totally confused me. I didnt like third strike strictly because of the reasons your mentioned. Parrying totally killed the purpose of zoning if you were a projectile character. There was no zoning in that game. So if you like third strike wouldnt you like SFIV series too then because focus attacks have some of the same properties.
And a game like Marvel VS Capcom 2 also has high creativity potential for combos but most that play that game from a competitive standpoint would say it is broken in the point that unless you use a certain group of characters you dont stand a chance. But even with that many, many people play the heck out of that game.
To each their own but as stated HDR/ST is far from perfect too. We all have different likes and tastes. It obvious everyone is not going to like the same things. And I still dont get why everyone says the inputs are easier. Isnt that what Sirlin wanted to do with HDR? Last time I checked a fireball done in HDR is done the same in just about every other SF game.
Poison - yes, the inputs are the same; but, everything is MUCH less strict in IV. I can pull combos out of my ass in IV without timing or anything, where in HDR I can mess up even simple stuff. For example:
Cammy HDR: cross-up lk > st. mp > cr. mk > drill
I can land this quite decently, of course I also have several mix-ups I use. Anyway, I always plan ahead before the combo and actually time it.
Akuma IV: cross mk > cr. mp > lk tatsu > fp SRK
Not that this is a wise combo to use despite its damage output, I can land this ALL the time if I get the cross-up. Same thing with the Raging Demon ultra: in HDR sometimes it won’t come out, but in IV I can do it on reaction. Inputs are much less strict in IV, I am certain people who have played both games extensively will tell you the same.
To be honest I’ve got much less experience of 3S than any other SF. Yeah parrying kind of sucks that it dilutes zoning, but parrying requires a little more risk than focusing. With a parry you have to intentionally let go of block. It only has a short duration so your timing has to be good otherwise you can easily eat an attack. With SFIV you just hold down strong and forward for a while. It’s easy to focus fireballs because of how long the focus lasts for, so there is much less risk in IV’s version of the parry.
Also when you let go of the focus, you get an auto attack, so you absorb something and auto attack. Back in 3S, you would parry the hit and then make a move of your own which I’m guessing could get counter parried, stuffed or whatever.
But enough of that, I don’t have enough focus vs focus attacks to compare it with the above scenario.
Also something I didn’t cover in my blog post is with meaties. Although the overall animation in terms of frames for Ken’s low short is longer in SFIV, it has less hitting frames (I think 2 instead of 4 in ST?). I just get the feeling that Capcom wanted to remove any tactics or strategies that casual players used to complain about in SF2.
Mr. GoldenArch, I know how you love your meaties. Mr. kneebash! LOL
Cross-ups and meaties still have their place in SFIV you just have to watch for easier reversals, which means even deeper mind games since even crossups and meaties are easily executable.
SFIV is even deeper than HD Remix not only for the aforementioned reasons, but also due to the amount of matchups a person would have to learn to be truly proficient with a character. This deepness gives it the element to keep playing it and master this game and is a reason I’m still playing it.
I also had to depart from playing Remix for the same reasons the general population is not playing hyperfighting or 3S. New Blood. I’m tired of waiting 5 minutes for a match online, and also tired of not finding anyone in my area that knows how to play this game. I can find matches within 1 min or less on SSFIV of equal caliber with custom matches, and there are plenty of local tourney players that know how to play this game.
I also believe that the easier inputs, reversals, etc. are a result of the following:
appeal to a casual audience (easier input gives satisfying results. More players join as a result.)
appeal to the hardcore (more challenge from players with better execution. At least the hardcore that have the balls to let the scrubs have additional tools.)
Lag. (Lost frames on lag are probably a key reason behind the 6 frame window. The 1 frame window of older Street Fighters didn’t take online connection issues in consideration, since they were arcade games. I think this makes up for lag, unless the lag is HORRIBLE.)
I understand that the hardcore won’t appreciate all of their hard work mastering execution go down the drain, but in the long term, it is essential to keep the Street Fighter Love alive.
Uh, there was Super NCR several weeks ago. Prior to that, there was an HDR tourney at Fuddruckers in Jan…all in the Bay Area. Right now, Sirlin is even hosting sessions at his residence. Here’s a link to the Pac North thread: Pacific North: Discussion & Matchmaking
The Bay Area has it share of dedicated players who actually meet up to play (guys like Thrust, Vestax, Fudd, etc). I remember telling you to at least come out for casuals for NCR last year. So the whole “not finding anyone in my area” is far from true.
I’m not putting you on blast or anything, so please don’t take it that way. I’m just letting you know that NorCal does in fact have a HDR/ST scene.
I don’t remember stating that Norcal did not have an HDR/ST scene, it definitely does.
However, it is STILL not in my area. A 2 hour drive disqualifies this as “an area” that I can feasibly go to. Ergo, my stance is the same.
I can sincerely say that HDR is the best Street Fighter to date and I will remember it like that. I look forward to seeing the EVO matches when they stream later on. For now, I will get my fix with SSFIV, it may be slightly inferior to HDR, but it is still a good game in its own right.
And for the haters, I am NOT stating that the game is perfect. Just saying it is good.
I don’t believe Super IV is perfect, neither is HDR/ST. I’ve stated before that I won’t be playing HDR online anymore, mainly due to PS3 HDR. So unless an xbox falls out of the sky gently on to the ground in front of me, I’m done with the stupid biased towards one system piece of shit.
As for IV, it actually has decent netcode, at least to say the matches tend to be more playable compared to PS3 HDR. Also, every 2-3 weeks there’s Super IV ranbats being held and I might actually get Saturdays off to go to them now.
I’m curious though Zero? Why do you have a bunch of scrubs on your FL that say tick throws are cheap? Why are they on your FL?
Regardless, I’m glad that you are fine with online HDR on xbox, and anyone playing offline that you can play with.(not sure on the second one just throwing it out in case you play offline)
Lastly, why aren’t you looking for matches with people in the SSFIV forums? You guys jump on complain cause of random mashers, and there’s a whole fucking forum of people who have been playing since SFIV. You’d say pretty much the same thing to random person A posting in the HDR forum, why not do the same?
Anyone on PSN want to play a ryu, look up hadouken696969, he also plays HDR.
This post is neutral, although it may not sound like it.
Did I miss something? I don’t remember saying anything about scrubs on my friendslist, unless you meant a page back where I said the people I beat easily left to play SFIV. There are maybe 2 or 3 out of 90 who complain about tick throws. Some of them are people I met when I more or less started playing and I’ve simply improved more or got to know them, and deleting them would be awkward.
I’m sure I could trim my friends list if I could be bothered. I don’t usually add people, and when I do I’m picky about who because I don’t play high pings. The majority of my friends list are people I get along with or who added me.
It’s not just the absence of lag, but also the whole social thing.
And even SFIV people are saying xbox > ps3. Idk maybe it is PSN?
“One trend I’ve noticed is that all the people I can beat with ease on HDR are now playing IV, but those that give me a good match or beat me are still playing HDR. Why is that? Those are the scrubs/casuals/noobs who would complain about how cheap tick throws are”
Sorry, I didn’t get 2 or 3 out of this statement.
The only people I ever had on my FL were either from Soul Calibur online or HDR. Eventually some people just stopped signing on, so I deleted them, and anyone that didn’t like my ticking just never friended me, but most people on PS3 don’t send hatemail or so it seems.
In that case, let me rephrase what you meant to say. You meant to say that “there are no players within my preferable driving distance.” Although, if you’re not willing to drive 2 hours once a year for the opportunity to play against John Choi, well, I don’t know what to tell you. If I unfairly assumed that you were commited and would be interested in supporting the scene in the Bay, then that’s my bad, no worries.
If I lived within 2 hours of the Bay area, not only would I be attending every NCR and EVO, but I would also be looking to attend any SoCal events, as well as attending any local events in my neighbourhood.
Yeah, maybe for like absolute new people who just mash and stuff happens, but like when you need to know a bunch of 1 frame link combos to be competitive and the wonkiest roman cancel ever it seems like that is actually not an easy game.
In hdr you only need like one 3 hit combo and you can win anything you want, it isn’t about that at all