SSFIV has killed my GAME! Noooooooooooo!

I’ve been a regular Claw Player in HD Remix for a long time.

I played SSF4 since its release with an arcade stick without playing HD Remix inbetween.

When I came back to play Remix, I discovered that my skills have deteriorated beyond belief. I blame SSF4 for this heinous crime.

Why? Everything is different. Movement speed, floaty jumps, emphasis on combos for damage, opponent gets ULTRAS for being hit! What? I thought I was supposed to be rewarded for offense…

Poking and zoning is useless thanks to EX system.

Do you know the effects of ruining poking and zoning for a Claw Remix player?

Has anyone suffered similar effects since playing this game?

I prefer to refer to it as “The Scottish Game.” I hope people come back to HDR in droves.

I wrote a similar thread when SF4 first came out. I totally was trying to throw with lp/lk too!

I’ve been playing Claw in IV literally the same way I play him in HDR, but I realize that I won’t be able to survive against top-tier competition with that style. I’ve decided to main Akuma in SSIV, I think I’ve finally found my character to use. He just feels right. But yeah, expect a downgrade in your HDR skills; I’ve been juggling between IV, SSIV, and DOA4 - and playing HDR felt very weird earlier yesterday.

BTW - I just came back from watching UFC. Did anyone catch the fights?

I play Ken in both, but I’m only good with him in HDR. Sure, you can blame some of that on the lack of a knee bash loop and solid DPs, but HDR Ken just feels right. I don’t really see a difference in my HDR skills after playing SSFIV. I even play HDR after SSFIV and I don’t see any discernible difference. However, when I try to play SSFIV like it’s HDR, I usually lose. But when I play SSFIV in a scrubier fashion, I do alright. The biggest hurdle for me with SSFIV was approaching it as if it were SFII with better graphics. However, much like in HDR, I can win with Ken but not with Ryu.

I can totally get behind your post for about the first half. Going between (S)SF4, HDR, ST, A2, and 3S pretty regularly, I definitely have some bad adjustment time if I’ve stuck with one for a particularly long time. That’s just a downside of playing similar games with wildly different internal systems.

The part about not being rewarded for offense is possible. Trade ultras are less common now, but there still seems to be a very defensive slant to some matchups (which is true of HDR as well, though to a lesser extent). I don’t know Vega’s matches against most of the cast well enough to say how that plays out. The whole “ex system making poking and zoning useless” is pretty much wrong though. You just need to learn to adapt your poking and zoning game to the SF4 engine.

I just don’t get IV. I actually feel that the combat system is that loose, that matchups don’t even make too much difference anymore. I mean the way I would play Ken vs Guile in HDR would be to sparingly shoot jab fireballs and punish any movement. In IV this kind of zoning seems ineffective. Guile just jumps over your fireball (or EX booms) and pulls out some bullshit easymode combo while you are still in your retarded fireball recovery.

Cammy vs Gief had always been in Cammy’s favour, but I heard in IV it’s in Giefs?

I dunno. The game engine is too weird. Even if they added a turbo mode or speeded up the walk speed, I think it would still be too heavily on the defensive side. I think ST.HDR got it more or less perfect. It’s more than just speed. It’s worth challenging wakeups in ST because you know how long you have to jump (so you have the option of empty crossup or safe jump), and that in some situations, reversals are difficult. Because IV’s reversals are easier, and wakeup speed can vary, it makes it a gamble not worth taking, so many people don’t.

The problem also lies within the excessive hit confirming. You can pretty much hit confirm anything with anyone, so it means people are taking much less decreased risks when they do decide to attack.

As I regularly mention, on average it takes me 2 rounds to fill super meter, but it’s easy to get an ultra per round, maybe even two. In this you are effectively rewarded for taking 50% damage.

Man there is so much wrong with this game that I don’t think I did it justice even in my blog entry.

SSF4 made alot of good improvements from SF4 to make it less bad, but it’s still bad IMO. Many things I dislike about the game is still present (Which was no surprise since Capcom said they weren’t changing the game THAT much.)

Oh my god. This.

2 days ago, I fought a Cody player where the majority of his damage that he dealt to me was hit confirming crouching jab into a combo. And his crouching jab hitbox extends past his fist!

Absolutely ridiculous.

And since there are so many unsafe moves in SSF4, it makes it even easier to crouch jab someone to punish. Little reward for offensive gameplay.

So yeah, playing SSF4 had an effect on my game. I hesitated a bit when I played Fei Long in HDR because his rekkas in SF4/SSF4 are so easily punishable/unsafe on second hit (Sometimes first hit depending on the matchup), I would turtle up and be afraid to rushdown.

The other thing I somewhat dislike about IV is the difficulty involving jump-kicking a fireball. The spacing requires you to be so close that very often it is just more effective to FADC through, but maybe I am just not used to it as much… yet. Anyway, I think I finally found my main in Akuma - he feels comfortable to use. On another IV note, I was doing the hard survival trials and won 128 consecutive rounds. Then I realized I only needed 40 for the gold. FUUUUUUUUUUU!!!

Anyway, it is good to abandon most of your ST/HDR logic when playing IV/SSIV.

I’m cool with it!

Really though, you guys keep looking at it this way and you won’t want to play it.

Its not SFII, so stop trying to apply SFII thinking to it.

P.S. Fei long is awesome, roughly mid tier, but he feels right. (You can hit confirm with fei too)

Yeah, I played a hit confirm Bison the other day. It was like 4x jabs into scissor kick. Fucking annoying. Focusing is worthless in this situation because the second jab would knock you out of it. I mean hit confirming in ST/HDR meant something, you had to chain cancel that shit in order to get the benefit of hit confirm (like Kens 2x short xx super), but now you just mindlessly jab and oh look, SFIV auto combos whatever you tag onto the end of it.

I find it easier to go between the two if you don’t use the same character in both. I do use Honda in 4, but I also use a lot of Blanka (working on Hawk in Super).

Plus I like to immediatly get a few games in of HDR after playing 4, just to keep fresh, LOL.

I just fucking hate how people can jump out of command grab ticks in 4. So gay.

Yeah, it’s like they took all the common scrub complaints about what they didn’t like in ST, and removed them in IV.

“Throw loops are cheap!” - As a result, Ken has no knee bash, and all the other holds that you could loop/mixup from are gone/useless.
“Tick throws are cheap!” - Can now tech throws completely (instead of getting thrown and reducing the damage). The window for teching is pretty big too.
“I get hit by 2 combos and I’m dead” - Damage greatly reduced
"I get ToD’ed!" - Dizzy combos no longer work.
“I can’t time reversals properly” - Much larger reversal window.
“I can’t do any damaging combos” - LOL have a free ultra meter.
“Zoning is cheap” - Here’s a floaty jump. No wait, we’ll go one better, here’s a move that goes through fireballs for free - it doesn’t even require good timing!

How are you supposed to play a game that’s based on another, 20-year-old game, that has the same 20-year-old characters in it? Should I not DP jump-ins, zone Gief, rushdown Sagat, etc.? This is the biggest disconnect I think most people, including myself, have about the game. Wasn’t it even marketed as “SFII: In kinda-sorta 3D”.

Chronologically, SF4 was supposed to happen between SF2 and SF3. Apparently Ken got amnesia at some point and forgot how to knee bash.

Totally not true. If you time it right the opponent can’t jump out. You can even tick into super/ultra if the grab has 0 frames of start up.

The problem is that attacks deal different hit/block stun. So if you hit with your tick you need to delay your command grab input more than if your tick was blocked.

I also heard that the window for being able to tech a throw is shorter in super. I have to concur. It’s harder to tech throws now.

Huh. I’ll work on it some more. Seemed like people were able to jump/backdash out of my Hawk shenanigans so easily… I’m admittedly using a command grab character for the first time though :confused:

Ya, UltraDavid has ticked me into Zangief’s Ultra 1 so many times, and for the longest time I thought you could just jump out too. But if you get it right on the money there’s nothing they can do except perform a reversal that is immune to throws on the first frame.

And I think I’m wrong about the grab having to be 0 frame start up. I think the start up just needs to be shorter than the amount of time that it takes someone to jump.

Either way, I know if you get it right, the opponent cant jump. lol

Nah EAmegaman. (pre)Jump frames are unthrowable in SF4 so you can jump out of any throw.

Giefs ultra is also not 0 frames. It is 1+0 frames. Which means it has 1 frame start-up before the flash, 0 after. Meaning that if someone were to do a tick into ultra you can jump out if you were holding up during or right after the tick and *before *the ulra/super flash. After the flash there is no more startup and if you werent holding up you will get grabbed.