He still does, Sagat, Sim, Chun, Guile, and Ryu are all very hard match-ups (sure DeeJay prob. is as well, haven’t played it yet enough in 4 to know for sure). But just because of the 4 engine it’s much harder to zone someone completely out like you can in ST/HDR. I know that in 4 I’ll eventually get in a couple of times, and when I do Honda can cause som big damage with HHS and EX HHS combos. Against shotos it’s almost as hard to get in with Blanka as Honda, and honda hits much harder, so I generally go Honda vs. Shotos. Against Sagat and Chun I usually go Blanka.
I need to practice my HHS combos in 4, it’s funny that I’m much better pulling out HHS combos in HDR than in 4, LOL.
I have no way of evaluating the ratio of non-scrubs to scrubs for either game, nor do i think anyone else does on this forum through whatever anecdotal evidence they’ve experienced.
I do know that on a very consistent basis from reading the tournament results forum that tournies get consistently more entrants in sf4/ssf4 than they do for HDR by a significant margin.
Take that as you will. All I know is that, for whatever reason, way more people are playing what I feel to be a worse game that is found in sf4/ssf4 than HDR. This will probably never change :shake:
Yes, but you don’t need to have particularly fast hands (fingers) to do it. All it takes is timing and a little finger coordination (which is probably my problem, LOL).
There are people on my FL play SFIV because they found they weren’t competetive in HDR. There are some who are playing it at the moment, but they will be back on HDR in a few weeks, I know it. SFIV is so much less brutal, that on the day I got it, I could pick up Juri and beat random people with no knowledge of the character, matchups or game engine for that matter.
Yeah, I’d say there are less scrubs on HDR, for the simple fact that all the scrubs are now playing SFIV with it being more accessible.
Have no doubt about it. Only a fanboy is going to argue that.[list][]the new generation does not feel happy by having to throw supers away. There it is, make it a confirm fighter, that is, every super can be hit-confirmed from simple combos and sometimes ordinary moves, like a simple SRK;
[]supers are actually very cool, I’d rather have two types of them;
[]Fei Long is borken, really. He can combo me like there’s no tomorrow, and he can even make those special punches safe. I want unsafe rekkas;
[]throws are hard to deal with. Have them deal low damage and allow for option selects;
[]supers are not flashy enough. Have a very long ultra animation, and even change camera angles, even if it damages gameplay when the move whiffs;
[]blocking moves suck, I want to attack. Using different normals is also complicated. Make characters recover faster from blocked attacks, so I can counter forwards and strongs and just stick to shorts and jabs if I myself don’t wanna get reversaled;
[]speaking of which, reversals are hard. I want them better;
[]the game is fast and I can’t space my moves so they are safe. But I try to counter DPs on wakeup and I am just out of reach, every time. I want no DPs never to be safe;
[]dealing with fireballs is hard. Invincible moves, please;
[]I picked a fireball char and it is still hard. EX fireballs, please;
[]I get swept a lot. How about walking backwards has some sort of low body invulnerability and attacking does not get me pinned down?
[]the game might still not be flashy enough. Artificial high hit counts for moves and ultras and long, non skippable intro animations;
[]the dashes from crossover series seem cool. Add dashes to SF too, screw walking speed;
[]I have just eaten a fierce-fierce-hadouken combo and it does a lot of damage. I’d like longer combos only to d high damage. Long combos are cool, anyhow;
[*]I have just realized grapplers can’t harass me so much! Thanks! The difference between getting hit and blocking made ticking harder: I can often just jump away![/list]
Popularity and quality often don’t hang together. I know it is a different game. Of course it is. What annoys me is not only how it is, but WHY it is this way.
I’m tired of people giving it a week, and then bitching about it.
Especially when they then say it doesn’t reward offense since y’know all SFIV fights are won by time out.
And Shari, you like to start arguments for the shit of it.
All I hear from you guys is,
can’t meaty
reversals are too easy
i don’t like hit confirms
etc.
Did you really want ST in 3D? Did you really think you were going to get that?
It would be okay if it was, “I don’t like IV…” because of specific game engine things, like Focus input being awkward, or the floaty jumps, and throws being weak.
But most of the complaints are centered around “its not like ST because…” That’s why I’m so annoyed with this crap.
I believe we all expected some EX/Alpha/3rd strike mixture, which is what has happened. But the producer has to come and say “No, it is based on SSF2T!” Yes, I believe any HDR player would want a new, shiny and even more balanced version of the game. But it didn’t demand that SF4 was it, Capcom has said so. Thus, I believe they deserve all the criticism those stupid marketing interviews could generate.
I’m not sure that those two things are mutually exclusive. I can point out flaws within IV and then give you an example where those flaws, y’know, weren’t flaws in II.
EDIT: BTW, with IV’s strict timing and 1 frame links, I can almost, almost do Ken’s cr.short>cr. short>super…when attacking in the 1P position; attacking from the 2P is still a long ways away
I’m glad it’s not just me that sees it. Especially with how weak fireballs/zoning is. I’m convinced that Capcom purposely removed everything that was “cheap” about ST.
To say that the engines are sort of similar, I don’t get why Ken has gone from top tier to shit tier. Anyway, you know a game is messed up when Zangief is a bad matchup for Cammy. How does that even work? The moveset and geometry would say that it’s in Cammy’s favour (unless Cammy got a new move that changes things a lot).
Alright I really gave super street fighter iv a shot again and I really tried my best to excel at it. The game simply sucks compared to street fighter 2. I know plinking, double tap, and all the advanced tactics and it still sucks.
I used to main Sagat (some Zangief too) in SF4 so it didn’t seem as bad. I now gave Dudley and Balrog a shot and wow using those characters really shows just how bad this game is. I simply can’t main Dudley due to how frustrating some of his matches are with how some people try and run away the entire match on those huge stages. I can use Dudley on third strike and it is just really frustrating in this game and he seems to not be even close to top tier.
I studied up on Balrog and gave him a shot and learned all of his advanced tricks and combos. He plays almost nothing like HDR Balrog. He is no longer a rushdown king. Balrog plays like a turtle with really good priority that also tries to sneak a jab in to do a really big combo. I really don’t like like how he is a completely different character with a much more boring style.
A tactic I really hate in SSF4 when I try to poke and apply pressure is people doing focus attacks as parries constantly and they stun you instantly and do a large combo into ultra. This, I don’t even, this alone basically ruins the game for me with Balrog. Another thing is I have to backdash constantly on wakeup because so many people try to do wake up throws. The wake up game in SSF4 sucks compared to SF2. The best option for me is to usually backdash. Loops in SF2 I do not like though.
I rarely get hit by reverse ultras anymore because I am really good at fakes although having one poke get instant focused attack into ultra really gets me angry playing. It works on high and low attacks so people basically spam it. I use armor breakers and they still do it and after ten attempts they get lucky and land it once into ultra. When they do get lucky it is from lag most of the time.
The ranking system is also atrocious. Once you hit B it is completely abysmal. Custom matches of same skill show no one or people with orange bars. When you actually get a green bar meaning good lag the person has high player points but low battle points and is a D rank so you only get one point per win. You lose a lot at B when you lose. I make lobbies and get a slew of D players also. Why is there no filter for certain ranks? Basically it is the terrible HDR ranking system again with a different variation where you get no points or maybe 1 for winning and lose points for losing.
If I do play some more it will be with a zoner because using a poke character or a character where you have to chase someone is simply not fun for me because of the appalling mechanics in the game.
Capcom you made a great casual game but you made a horrendous tournament game. Also the netcode makes the game hardly worth playing online unless the other person lives near you.
Honestly I may be done with fighters. I do not like SSF4 or Tekken 6. SF2 and Virtua Fighter days appear to be over so whats the point of playing fighters if only trash is released.
When I was playing and trying to get better at SF2 it was a lot of fun. Doing this in SSF4 is not fun and I question why I am playing such a slow and boring game.
The thing that HDR desperately needs, heck every fighting game and every competitive game needs is good skill matchmaking.
The fact that SSFIV has a little bit of it really helps IMO.
I jumped on Halo Reach beta last night; I totally suck at Halo, I’ve barely ever played it other than going through the 1P modes, and I put it on “skill priority” and was incredibly impressed it found me a game of 8 people (4v4) who were all around my skill level. Excellent stuff and that’s just a beta! Starcraft II beta is the same.
Oh and yeh, I’m one of the people that will be back on HDR in a few weeks I’m sure too.
I’ve not played enough of the ranking system in SSFIV yet to judge it, but I was hoping (as above) that it would at least have some merit. From what I understand from what you’re saying is that you can only matchmake skill on joining (not creating) matches, and it conflicts it’s uses for PP and BP. It sounds like it uses PP for “skill” yet BP to determine the win/loss points. That actually sounds… okay… flawed but not as flawed as doing nothing. Realistically your BP should raise with every character if you have high PP, because if you’re winning that much in general, you probably have some good overall skills and the fact you may not have won with a specific character doesn’t mean AS much.
What is terrible about the HDR ranking system to you? Or any ELO based system? (This is not an attack, I’m really interested to hear what people think).
(Also for what it’s worth, like Zero_1 I wrote a whole load about why SFIV isn’t for me. Start here if you’re interested. )
Well, I played a bunch of games of SSF4 this morning and I take back what little credit I did give it for being fun. Every match was me trying to catch the other guy while he ran away all round. Every match starts with the opponent walking backwards. If they aren’t walking backwards then they are sitting in defensive crouch, refusing to move until I get bored and stick something out and pay for it. I was using mainly Blanka and T.Hawk, if the other character just sits there there is nothing I can do to pressure them. None of my special moves are safe, so I can’t try to cause chip damage. The engine to slow for walk up throws to work. Pokes are just blocked for no damage or FA’d.
And T.Hawk is about useless because all they have to do is jump to escape all of his throws. Sure I can fake a tick throw and then SRK when they jump, but basically all I get for all the hard work to finally chase them down and get into a good position is a 50/50 situation that could just as easily go very badly for me. I want it to require some skill on their part to get out of my throw set-ups, not just for them to guess right in a 50/50 situation, especially after how hard it is to chase down these running scrubs anyway.
That’s another thing, I’ve been playing FG’s for over 20 years now, I can tell when someone doesn’t really know what they are doing. They’re not spacing properly, they do random things, etc. I lose all the time to the most scrubby of things because this game LETS THEM GET AWAY WITH IT. Ugh. It’s like the game is only fun when two people who actually know how to play get together, the amount of things available for a scrub to turn a match into a boring pile of mashiness is astounding. In most fighting games, you run into a scrub you dispatch him in a few seconds and move on. Not in SF4, you have to try chase their asses down and then you end up losing because every good set-up or tactic always ends in a damn 50/50 situation where the scrub’s goofy randomness is actually an asset for them, LOL.
The worst thing you can do on this game is give people credit. I have eaten so many random dragon punches that no intermediate player would have done for fear of being baited. Mind games are lost on these types of people. Well I think it’s a simple decision. If Capcom want to make a game that appeals to scrubs, then I will stick with HDR. At least then I won’t be wasting my time against total beginners.
I wasn’t going to say this before because I thought it was a bit harsh, but it seems to me that SF4 is SF3 trying to appeal to the main stream including scrubs.
Norieaga has played 50 or so matches today in vanilla IV. His thoughts:
Ultras and reversals are way too easy, I found myself not attempting combos for fear of counters (Akuma has low health, too risky)
I go for a cross-up and somehow land on a cr. jab??? The wakeup select needs to die
Why is Vega’s **anti-air **vulnerable to every fucking jumping attack?
For whatever reason I would trade hits on Akuma’s SRK 50% of the time off getting jumped in on
Some characters are way too safe compared to others
In conclusion, this is not a game I’ll be taking too seriously. Of course I’ll try to become as good as I can with Akuma, but playing IV/SSIV can definitely hurt your HDR/ST game. This is the type of game where I’ll do my best to disregard the fundamentals of it when a new fighter comes out. The engine needs work, its too casual for its own good.
I like playing Vega in this game the only real issue is that he has no anti air response outside backflip or atleast none i have found so far.
Walldive whoring is still fun.
I did what i said earlier and i’ve recorded me playing the game for the first time ever for 2 hours and currently encoding it.
It is in no way comparable to HDR or ST but it’s atleast playable.
With Vega the only AA that actually works is FA’ing the jump ins, with his fast FA and his backdash it’ll relatively safe and actually useful.
Scarlett Terror is usable in SOME match ups like Viper, Sim, Sak etc but it still loses to meatys and deep jump ins. There’s also s.RH, c.HP, nj. RH, s.LP and U2 but theyre all situational.
