SSF4 Tier List Thread REBOOT Super + AE (Updated: 02-01-09)

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1921

Hard to say if the results of this would be any different if it was offline…

**
Analysis of First Three Matches:**

Ambiguous burn kicks are in red…

Total Burn Kicks: 43

Burn Kicks That Were Not Actual Attacks: 12
0:28 (successful bait attempt due to the followup)
0:39
0:44
1:54
4:14
4:15
4:42
4:52
5:10 (defensive move by Latif while trapped in the corner, lead to a block string for Air)
5:45 (oddly spaced, not sure what he was trying here, possible bait attempt, someone else may have another opinion)
6:20
6:23

Blocked Burn Kicks: 3
3:07 (stand block, no punish, lead to trade)

4:01 (crouch block, no punish)
4:44 (crouch block, no punish, spacing allowed for a hadoken which was focused by Latif)

Focused Burn Kicks: 4
0:26 (no crumple, no punish due to Latif’s backdash)
1:55 (no crumple, SRK punish)

2:35 (crumple, punish, he dropped the combo)
6:00 (crumple, punish cl.HP->stun)

Avoided Burn Kicks: 10
0:23 (early neutral jump, no punish, lead to a successful block string for Air)
1:32 (early neutral jump, no punish, lead to a successful block string for Air)
5:00 (early neutral jump, no punish, Air is thrown by Latif)
2:42 (early neutral jump, punish cr.MP->cr.HP combo)

2:49 (early forward jump, no punish, Air’s OS crouch tech countered by a frame trap)

6:49 (late forward jump, no punish)

1:41 (crouching normal during wake up, SRK punish was blocked, an additional SRK lead to a trade)
5:03 (crouching normal during wake up, punish cr.MK, lead to a second cr.MK->Hado combo due to a counter hit)

5:21 (psychic hadoken, punish hadoken)

5:48 (SRK, resulted in a trade)

Burn Kicks That Hit Air: 14
0:29 (early neutral jump, hit out of the air)

2:31 (late neutral jump, hit out of the air)
3:15 (late neutral jump, hit out of the air)

0:56 (psychic burn kick, no chance for Air to block, this analysis is debatable)
1:20 (psychic burn kick, no chance for Air to block)
4:02 (psychic burn kick, Air did an early cr.MP, this analysis is debatable)
4:47 (psychic burn kick, no chance for Air to block)

0:54 (combo into burn kick)

1:23 (dash burn kick, Air’s crouching MK was done too early)

1:25 (cross up on wake up, SRK did not auto-correct, was not ambiguous, corner)

1:40 (ambiguous cross up, crouching MK done too late)
2:50 (ambiguous cross up, difficult for Air to block due to the scenario but he tried)
4:56 (ambiguous cross up)
6:29 (ambiguous cross up)

Conclusions:

*It looks like Air is trying to use neutral jumps to avoid any scenario where he will have to block a burn kick.

Avoiding burn kicks with a crouching normal is not dominating but can be useful, for Ryu it seems to be most useful during his wake up.

Burn kicks are not easy to punish but can lead to block strings if you neutral jump early enough.

Early focus can be useful for Ryu in a scenario where Viper might try to jump over a fireball with a psychic burn kick.

Ambiguous burn kick is still hard to deal with.

Based on the small number of matches I viewed I think that Latif outplayed Kayo Police but it really made no difference in their opponents ability to punish Viper. Latif’s burn kicks were better spaced and less predictable than Kayo Police’s. It still seems to me like C. Viper can burn kick whenever she wants with limited consequences for doing so. The execution requirement is the limiting factor. *

I will continue this with matches later in the set to see if Air’s play style changes any…

1922

if you really think that viper can just burn kick whenever she pleases, then play her. please pick her up for like a month and learn to instant burn kick and the input that latif is doing for those burn kicks. its really not like that at all.

1923

If I am interpreting what you are saying correctly then my comment about “the execution requirement is the limiting factor” applies.

I recognize that it is physically difficult to play Viper.

There isn’t a lot of disadvantage associated with the successful execution of a burn kick.

1924

Allright, I have a few issues with Viper certainly, but holy shit enough about her already. I think we can all just agree to disagree and move on.

So, Yun and Yang. These two are obviously assholes, but who do you think’ll have the best chance of slowing them down other than Gief and Sagat? I’m curious how Oni might fare against them.

1925

Fei Long. And maybe Ken.

1926

Im not sure about zangief having a clear advantage over them, from what ive seen from videos it looks like a 5-5 to me at least.

1927

Daigo once said they have problems against Boxer because they don’t have an easy answer against his dash punch but it’s likely that they’ve found a way around it.

1928

Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of posters on in the last few pages are some combination of too low level to be able to contribute to the discussion or have no first hand experience with the game.

I’d love to discuss AE tiers with people who, you know, play AE, but the AE tier thread doesn’t seem to be the place for it.

1929

You can use my name instead of making posts like the above. I have done absolutely nothing to prevent you from posting your high level brilliance on this forum.

What is it about what I attempted to do on the last page that you have a problem with? My intention was to verify the theory fighting with data from actual matches. If your criticism of it is that you disagree with my analysis then I will accept that. It would be helpful if you would post your own to show everyone how to do it properly.

It surprises me that you have a problem with what my intention was. Do you not think that it would be helpful to look at the results from real matches?

1930

It feels 5-5 or in Yuns favor. THawk on the other hand feels more like an uphill fight.

1931

Does anyone have any more insight into Oni? He looks horrifying, but I have a feeling he may turn out like Gouken (cool, with high damage combos, but really, not too much of a threat).

1932

I thought a Dudley player would be ok with that kind of character :rofl:

1933

LOL @ the Viper discussion… I feel like, as is usually the case in such arguments, both sides have a point. Viper has a few tactics/abilities that are extremely strong, the kind of things a scrub would call “cheap as hell.” I don’t think they are overpowered, though. I have a blast fighting Viper. I wish more people played her. I know this is a cliche argument, but if she were that good, all of the top Japanese players would main her and dominate. And there are a lot of great Japanese Vipers, and a lot of great Japanese players put Viper in the top 5-10 characters in the game. But she’s not vanilla Sagat, or vanilla Akuma, or Yun. I don’t think anyone is saying she is. But I just don’t have a problem with her craziness. I think it’s fun and a welcome break from fighting shotos and grapplers and the like.

As for Oni… I don’t have a ton of insight, but my knowledge and intuition do point to him being a lot like Gouken. Gouken is quite capable (ever played ViperGoomba’s Gouken?), but yeah, not top tier. Oni’s air demon is crazy, and the cross up move takes some learning, but I feel like if you can avoid getting hit by those and learn the spacing and timing for his air dashes, there’s not too much he can do.

I am convinced that Evil Ryu is better. Evil Ryu is a lot faster than Oni, has the teleport (although it’s not as good as Akuma’s teleport), has better normals.

I predict Evil Ryu will end up B+ and Oni B-, give or take half a letter grade.

1934

Ouch… but still very true, lol. (and you know, I do play Gouken as an alt…le sigh)

1935

Low fuckin’ blow man.

1936

Its ok, AE brings ex duck! Speaking of that, it looks like Duds might do well against the new top tier, the twins specifically. I think a shift in the mids is going to happen.

1937

So, now that EVO is drawing closer, who do we think are going to be popular picks? Obviously Yun and Yang are going to be well represented, but who else do you think might make some noise? Here’s my list:

Fei Long
Boxer
Ken
Akuma
Makoto
Evil Ryu

I’m sure there’s more.

1938

Im calling Zangief, I think he can destroy the Twins, and do well against Fei, heck, any rushdown based char, im suprised more people are not seeing how good Gief really is.

Possibly Adon and Viper as well, and im not sure how Abel pans out in AE.

1939

I completely forgot about Gief, yeah, with his increased SPD range he’s very threatening. Viper will be there of course, because she has the biggest comeback potential in the game IMO. Adon is a bit of a wild card…he’s solid as hell but I still don’t see many people using him. Perhaps that’ll change.

1940

Ehh, giefs ok. Very solid counterpick. But will be counterpicked himself so prepare a backup. Or end up getting Ricky Ortized.

And the Fei matchup is kinda even. Gief def puts a halt to the Fei train rush, but still he’s is not quite a "no brainer " pick vs him.

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