Why is Zangief considered anti-Yun? Is it just because he can lariat him out of divekicks? Command throws aren’t that hot in SF4 because of the startup frames so that can’t be the reason, especially against a character that has a 3-frame jab like Yun.
SPDs, my friend.
NEW LP SPD range and 2 frame start-up makes it very dangerous to be near him.
What is safe pressure against other characters stops being so with gief.
So, dangerous in close range and can handle divekicks.
Definitely not a cakewalk for Yun.
What command grabs aren’t so hot?
I can’t think of any that are particularly bad in this game other than Hakan with no oil.
Fei’s is bad from a frame data perspective, but his offensive game actually allows him to land it, and it turns into stupid damage.
http://shoryuken.com/f266/zangief-better-worse-overall-ae-258644/
I posted in some depth on pages 15 and 16 about why I think command grabs in general are lackluster in this game (even Zangief and Hawk’s 2-frame grabs) and how this weakness will be magnified in AE when Zangief loses knockdown potential.
Basically, if you’re playing as Zangief against a character with a 3-frame jab, all it takes is a tiny 1/30th of a second timing mistake and your SPD gets eaten by a (likely mashed) jab, which can possibly lead to a combo or a reset of some sort. I gave more examples in my posts to that thread, as did a couple of the responses. 2-frames looks good on paper, but it’s still enough time for any numbers of things to stuff or negate a command grab since none of us are robots.
From what I just saw on the Topanga stream (a 23K BP Gief beating MDR’s 100K Yun) I’d say the Gief gives the twins a hard time because he can afford to guess wrong more than what they can.
oh my god. the announcer…
Zangief give Yun a hard time. It’s 6 - 4 in Zangief’s favor.
Honestly, are you seeing any akuma other than tokido in top 32? Who?
lol this can only come from a Gief mainer. 
You seriously think people can get away with mashing jabs and shorts up close vs Gief? Yeah right! I have a 3f start up too and it’s no good vs any grabber. Not only can you easily throw me out of my start up or recovery, but you can actually grab my potential box.
Plus 1/30th of a second is nothing. I mean gameplay wise, that is the equivalent of a 2 frame link, which is all the time in the world. If you constantly drop your 2f links you suck at this game.
And I would have to use a turbo controller to correctly input one 3f after another. Mashing alone won’t do any good. You’re most likely to get a 3 or 4 frame window if I just mindlessly mash short.
How many of the top 32 JP players will be at EVO though? At the very least I think we’ll see Tokido and Infiltration making a lot of noise at EVO, and probably one or two American Akumas.
Come on man, I don’t think you can argue against him being top tier. Yes, he gets knocked out if he’s not being played by a truly top tier player, but that’s not what tier lists are based off of.
He IS top tier but I don’t see any americans playing him decently enough to place top 32 at evo. I forgot about infiltration tho, he’s probably gonna do well if he’s coming
LOL didn’t we have four Akuma players in top 32 last year?
You don’t understand his point.
Many things make command throws weak in this game, compared with other games. Startup, active frames, range, damage, unthrowable pre jump frames, easily bufferable reversals… Play any other FG and you’ll learn to fear grapplers’ throws, a lot more than Gief’s/T.Hawk’s in this one.
Well just because they may not be as scary as in previous iterations doesn’t mean they’re BAD per se. You have to judge them compared to the options present in each game and not necessarily directly to each other.
Tokido, infiltration, JR (well…) and? Seriously can’t remember, i might be wrong
So? Who cares about previous SF games. I’m not saying command throws are cheap or better than before. No doubt grapplers have had better years. But you guys are talking like command throws are suddenly shit and useless which is so full of lolz.
They’re still the 2nd fastest move in the game (jump and backdash being the 1st). They’re faster than any normal, throw and any ex reversal. The only way to avoid a command grab is get airborne or invulnerable during it’s start up frames. And considering you can shortcut the input + buffer it during a normal start up or dash animation + considering Gief’s actually command throw range, it’s still a pretty scary thing. At least scary enough to make me think twice before getting in close. And scary enough to make me jump and backdash so often out of close range.
I don’t think command throws need to get better. The real problem imo is back dashing being such a godlike escape and anti-everything move.
Infiltration, Tokido, JR, Eita
so, how about that EX lunge guys? daigo used that shit every chance he got 
Some people like to put things into perspective.
Command throws are definitely good options, but using startup frames as an argument proves you haven’t really seriously played a grappler, have you ?
They are good options. Yet they are a lot less central to grapplers’ gameplay in SF4 than what happens in other games.
Take Gief’s case, his footsies + exgh + good lariat are well completed by 360s. Instead of having all the former designed to put Gief in the situation to land the latter.
Just treat it as if you’ve gotten hit by Ken’s EX tatsu. If you’re late teching, pray to god Yun doesn’t command grab you.