If the content of my posts had no value then it could be easily dismissed.
I will say nothing else about Viper after this post, I promise.
This is Street Fighter:
[media=youtube]NjVr6lS7zKY[/media]
This is genre killing:
[media=youtube]5nr1hxa3OcQ]YouTube - Flash Metroid (Black C. Viper) Marn (White C. Viper) [04/07[/media]
So basically for you SF should only be about zoning and footsies.
Well I think SF is much deeper than that and I’m quite happy there is diversity and place for other playstyles like rushdown, keepaway, turtling and mixups.
That being said, 50/50s and vortexs annoy me greatly and I understand where you’re coming from. Losing a match because of pure luck (Fuerte) or misjudging which direction to block/what option to use (Viper, Akuma, Ibuki) is not why I play this game. And quite frankly frustrating.
I agree with you that Viper’s burn kick is over-ambiguous. Then again, that’s all she got. Take this away from her and she’s crap/bottom tier for sure.
alot of mad people in this thread.
Woodenteeth, who is your main?
Right… It’s not always, “I didn’t guess right.” Think of it this way, when you’re making an educated guess, you’re going off of experience. Take someone like Viper or Fuerte and their knockdowns. They’ll consider all that you’ve done at this point along with what you are likely to do for wakeup. More often than not, when they do their vortexes, they’re making calculated guesses, not making shots in the dark.
The same applies to you. If I know Viper’s gonna constantly do crossup Burning Kick, I gotta block the other way.
In short, learn how to read. If they’re coming across as random, they’re either doing it right, you’re doing it wrong, or both.
Fuerte I actually don’t have a problem with because he has to guess right a LOT of times and outside of RSF doesn’t really have anything solid going for him. I get annoyed when I lose to Fuerte but not like “OMG WTF IS THIS SHIT” like I do sometimes against Viper.
Are Yun and Yang “educated guess characters”? That’s what I’m going to call them when I use those cheap fuckers.
So the complains aren’t on mixups but the risk/reward associated with how prevalent they are.
Hahaha…execution in SSF4? I think the problem with Viper is that when both opponents are standing, it’s too hard to AA or disrupt instant burn kick, same with air burn kick. It’s only a matter of time before viper gets in on you. Her burn kicks remind me of Fei’s fekka’s where at medium range there’s nothing you can do, you just have to wait for them, it prevents you from establishing any sense of footsies/spacing. That shit is so retarded. So I have to either A: throw out a normal in anticipation, which you are waiting for so you can punish the shit out of me, or B: slowly walk my way into the corner aka your best friend. I hate how people complain about viper not having good normals, she doesn’t need fucking normals when instant burn kick rapes most normals/tick throw attempts.
Her mixups are so ambiguous to the point where you have to make an educated guess. If you guess wrong you eat a billion damage/stun, if you guess right you’re subject to more infinite mixups.
More or less. I think Viper can make herself far too safe compared to the amount of damage she can get if she guesses right. There should be some inherent risk in potentially dealing that much damage.
then use her and win EVO. you act like it’s a one-button-win. i can understand your frustration at not knowing the match-up, but really? no execution? okay, if you say so.
This is pretty much the core of how people do damage though outside of chip. You did the wrong thing so I hit you. Viper and some other mixup characters just have faster results.
A fighting game with no 50/50’s or multilayered mixups is a game that gets dominated by defensive strategies and undynamic play because there is little incentive to do anything.
Before AE dropped weren’t people bitching this game was too defensive? Now offense isn’t fun?
Apparently this is what people want to play [media=youtube]WTyrTORxteg[/media]
Boxer is way less interesting high tier character. Weak high/low, no crossup, offense based around chip and smart footsies.
Also in turn for fuerte’s mixup he’s pretty much free on wakeup. His mixup does no damage, and it’s not even that slanted in his favor, if at all.
People really shouldn’t condemn “randomness”. Being unpredictable and hard to read is the core to success in just about any fighting game.
Playing the anticipatory spacing game requires a lot more understanding of nuances and is more consistently demanding than rock, paper, scissors at a neutral position.
use her and win at EVO you could say that about any character. I’m not acting like it’s a one button win. I’m not by any means super educated in this match-up but I know a good amount from playing, watching and reading frame data. I’m just pointing out the truth, go ahead and tell me I’m wrong. Tell me her mix-up game isn’t 1st to none, or that instant burn kick pressure isn’t ridiculous, or that in mediumish close range all you have to do is whiff punish or just throw out that BK, or walk into cr.anything range and throw out EX seizmo into ultra?
people are still complaining about viper?
i can taste the tears of your beloved shoto getting owned. stay free.
people that thinks street fighter should revolve around shotos needs to go back to world warrior.
shotos suck in world warrior though!
It’s nuanced, but so are wakeup situations. It’s educated guessing and attempting to condition. The reason wakeup situations seem more random is that one character has virtual frame advantage, and generally the damage dealt is higher than what would be dealt in footsies, though in other games similar damage is commonly dealt in footsies. SFIV just happens to be a very low damage game.
Also watch that video I linked. Thats playing that matchup at the highest level. I don’t really see the nuance of it, other than Nishikin trying to land focus into backthrow for guaranteed damage.
okay. you’re wrong.
here’s the secret, and it works for every character and it applies to everyone who’s frustrated with another character…learn the match-up. you’re on the right track, in terms of reading frame date, watching and playing, but you’ve got to put it all together. who do you use? what’s your approach to the match-up? what moves are you using and when are you using them? are you blocking the right way? if you’re starting the round holding down+back, then you’re bending over and waiting for the rape…then getting mad at the rapist. it’s easy to complain about a character, but if you’re going to swear up and down that she’s as terribad as you say she is, then tell us what you’re doing…or is it that you already know part of the blame lies with your gameplay?
@Retro kid: Guy I don’t mind fighting Viper. I’m just trying to state the obvious. I’m just venting at the fact that she does all that damage/stun with the illusion of being so ambiguous at the same time. I know on UTKD on her you can safe jump her reversal and OS sweep her if she backdashes. I know not to throw out any cr.anything when she walks forward with 1ex bar and ultra. Blocking BK is just a matter of experience while fighting her. So you’re trying to tell me that BK pressure isn’t ridiculous that her mixup game isn’t the best in the game, etc. etc.? I main Akuma and I can straight up tell you that his vortex game is straight up silly stupid if not just as stupid as C.Viper’s, main difference is that akuma doesn’t do nearly as much stun as c.viper’s does in SSF4.
@Ouroborus: Who said anything about the game revolving around shotos? That’s like me assuming you were one of those shoto haters crying about RyRy in SF4 and getting him nerfed from top tier to middle tier. There’s like a billion other character types in the game.
okay.
you know you have an auto-correcting 3f wake-up move, right? along with a teleport, air fireball and vortex that other folks would find just as ridiculous as you make viper out to be.
Too late >:D
But I’m done arguing with people about the truth. If people refuse to accept the facts, then what can I really do? 
Yup but at least I know that it’s ridiculous. Most viper players act like BK, ambiguous X-up, meterless ultra isn’t the shit. I’m venting cuz people are saying that viper isn’t that good, that her footsies suck, that she sucks blah blah blah…She does not SUCK! Srsly just admit that her BK is highly ambiguous and that she does massive damage/stun.