ya cause its so wicked easy for viper to do that
My main complaint about Viper is that she gets ten billion fucking damage off everything. That and she just says fuck your spacing and flies around the screen however she wants. Though in AE Makoto is gonna eat her alive with Fukiage so I probably won’t be nearly as free to Viper. 
If this is the case, you have absolutely nothing to contribute to this thread. If you want to complain about Viper, the Tier thread isn’t the right place for it.
id have to agree that viper is by no means a “bad” character… while she may not be the best she is good for what she is made for and is an interesting character to fight and play as
ex lunge so stupid…
Really, the ex lunge is what makes him ridiculous imo. He is extremely strong by himself and top tier material without doubt, but EX lunge being +1, focus breaker and comboable is just retarded lol
I don´t really see in that video sagat having any major advantage over yun, just a sagat player outplaying MDR and him making a few mistakes.
Speaking of random characters, I don’t like Seth, I don’t like Abel and I don’t like Viper. This is not a “I have trouble against these characters” post because at worst I usually go 50/50 with good players of these characters, but it’s just the way I have to play against them is just… not how Street Fighter should be played.
Seth with his impossible to read shit, Abel’s disgusting f+mk leading into free entry+knockdown, combined with EX change of direction means, with certain characters, footsies are not an option against him, and Viper’s literally random play is just not fun. I don’t feel rewarded for beating any of these characters.
This is just my opinion.
You know there is a problem with a character design when at the end of a match you try to think what when wrong and what can you improve and the only answer is “I didn´t guess right”
RF said that Yun is an easy match for Sagat.
What are you guys complaining about, at least ex lunge isn’t projectile invincible…
may I quote this in my sig? Great conclusion. signed
You can improve in not getting taken in the mixup in the first place.
SF4 is even particularly lenient on getting out of mixups compared to older games. Some situations were just infinitely worse than Vanilla Akuma/Gief vortex. Probabilities were a lot more than 50/50 and risk/reward also better.
Skilled 3S Makoto mixing you up means stun+death if you guess wrong. ST Gief lands c.roundhouse ? Good luck guessing 3-4 tick throws in a row and getting that 1f reversal out. If your char has one.
Yeah but that’s ST. Everyone was really really good in Super Turbo. Even T. Hawk was good.
In SF4 the rules are different. Everyone lives much longer, which means much more opportunity for random play to succeed, and trying to get out of a mixup is often just as dangerous as just waiting to see what happens.
For example, a character like Ryu can’t really ‘ride’ a good guess. He gets damage on you and he might be able to setup a block string on your knockdown, but if you watch most matches the Ryu player will have to make 3-4 good reads before he wins.
A character like Viper or Abel will often win because they can milk a knockdown with what are essentially free mixups, and they have very VERY good tools to achieve that knockdown. Damage they can get from a mixup has a much smaller effect on their playstyle because everything they land leads to another setup, more damage and more stun. They could take a huge damage nerf and still be completely viable, because in the end all they really need is one knockdown.
Abel is a little better than Viper in this regard because pretty much all of Viper’s shit is safe or can be made to be. Abel, despite having an excellent moveset, will sooner or later have to gamble on a command throw to open you up.
Viper and Abel can win on one good guess is what I’m saying, and that’s too much when you also have amazing tools to get into that guessing situation.
I’m not saying the characters are too good. I’m not saying they’re top tier. I’m saying that their design sucks. It sucks having to fight that shit.
but its really not as simple, speaking for viper, to just do stuff and have shit happen. theres a lot that goes into actually going through with a seismo or feinting it etc etc. youre just watering it down way too much.
Can you even count the number of times you’ve seen a Viper ride a knockdown to victory? I can’t.
I’m talking just one knockdown. She can be at 10% health and she’ll pull of some unholy 70% combo and then short you into stun because she’s flying around like the unpredictable fucking bitch that she is while you’re trying to AA her for 60 damage, which of course whiffs because she used her burn kick at the last second which changed her trajectory and you’re now eating EX seismo feint cancel into U1 or some shit.
“Idiot!” Bzzzbzzt FUCK YOU.
One thing about Viper is that she DOES require some execution at least.
There’s your problem right there. It’s pretty obvious the risk/reward here is not in your favour, so if you get hit by a BK in that position you probably deserved it. Focus Attacks are pretty handy, but you need to know the spacing. Sure, there are times where it’s going to be 50/50 regarding who gets hit, but that’s what mixup characters are like.
Complete Top 5 Personalised Tierlist;
- (my worst match-up) - ‘Needz nerfs!’
- (most tournaments’ winning character) - ‘Probably needs nerfs’
- (my favorite character) - ‘Probably needs buffs to be tournament viable’
- (rest of the cast) - ‘Does not need any changing’
- Gen - ‘Who?’
^ lmao
It is. I was surprised to hear that at first but after watching a couple of high level Sagat vs Yun matches it all made sense. Sagat’s heavy and fast zoning is just too much for the twins. Plus Sagat has really good pokes to keep Yun away and a great reversal to deal with those dive kicks and mixups. Ken also seems to have a considerable advantage over the twins right now.
Still uncertain how Oni and Evil Ryu do vs the twins but it should be interesting. Probably 5-5.