^ lol. What a jerk.
You actually think Mago was mashing DP? Hell no. Look carefully, he blocked that tricky overhead and reacted to Yang’s dash.
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Yang has no lunge punch
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It was a dash
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Had Nemo not pressed any buttons after the dash he’d have blocked the flame kick. So to put it simple (for a simpleton like you), he wasn’t mashing but he still got lucky…he just guessed right and was lucky. Had nemo blocked, fei would have been dead 100%.
That’s NOT the way to deal with yang, lol. It’s like saying that the way to deal with rufus and cammy is to throw a shoryuken after blocking one of their dive kicks and hope they tried to go into a string instead of blocking. But obviously you have no idea what you’re talking about
Yeah, Mago was mashing like a motherfucker at that point. It’s smart to mash the dp there, since there’s a gap in it… but it’s still mashing haha. He didn’t even cancel into an fadc, he just let the dp go.
Edit: Whoops, closer inspection shows he got the meter after he landed the uppercut. Still, should have tried canceling it :X
I’m laughing at people saying “mashing” isn’t a valid way to deal with Yun, Yang and any other character who has relentless rushdown because it definitely is. If you have the option use it, you guys acting like you’d sit there blocking so well LOL. You’d all mash if you had the option so stop acting like Mago was just mashing. If you actually watched the whole vid you’d see that he isn’t mashing because mashing is doing a reversal all the time, through blockstrings, on wakeup etc.
If your character doesn’t have a mashable special then you have to deal with it a different way, which is what defines matchups etc.
@Vulcan Hades - Good job posting the video, that IS a valid way to deal with Yang or Yun (Y)
@Superlollo - Yes, doing a well thought out reversal on Cammy and Rufus is a very good way to deal with their dive kick pressure because it will make them think twice about doing it again, therefore creating a mindgame.
If you really want to see mashing go and watch the finals of Evo 2K10 again, Daigo mashes but does it for a reason. Plus he’s willing to take that risk just to get in his opponents head. Mago didn’t really mash he made an educated guess.
- frames on block isn’t that big of a deal on it’s own. It’s the possible options afterwards that matter. Blanka’s hp Electricity is +10 on block but it’s not that scary because his options afterward are limited because of how far it pushes you back, not to mention that his close-up pressure is limited. The problem with EX lunge is that it’s safe; it’s that it’s safe AND has little pushback (relative to Yun’s recovery position), AND that Yun can pressure you very easily using a variety of tools.
^ especially command grab. Sure Bison and Blanka also have a safe on block specials, but they don’t end up in your face and don’t have a command throw.
btw my “this is how you deal with Yun/Yang” was about the whole video. Not just that part lol. I just linked the videos to those parts because we were talking about the twins super and stuff.
Maybe Mago was indeed mashing at that point. But to say that he “just got lucky” is laughable. He obviously knew the matchup well and had godlike reaction to block the overhead. That flame kick wasn’t random, it was a good read.
Mashing is a good OPTION but it’s not a “way to deal with a character”. Throwing out a random reversal once in a while might get yun/yang off of you for a while, but what if you get baited? You lose half life?
If mashing was such a valid option then all dive kick characters would suck…yet i see rufus, cammy, yun and yang raping people all over. How comes? The odds are ALL in their favour when they’re molesting you with dive kicks…you can mash and do them 120-140 damage once…wow big deal, 10 seconds later they’re back in and dive kicking your ass again and if they happen to block one of your mashed reversal they’re gonna do you 3 times as much damage as you did to them with your “lucky” reversal.
Mashing is a basically a high risk option and it’s not a “how to deal with [name] character”.
The majority of players mash to show their opponents that they can’t just Rushdown for free. So the fact that they’ll start baiting you is a good thing. Also characters that have mashable reversals are generally better at fighting dive kicks for that reason. And I said generally before you try and respond.
Another thing is, I never said mashing is a good way to deal with any character but it’s better against dive kick characters. And landing a reversal resets the situation and/or sometimes puts you in the advantage. I don’t know where this “yun can get in for free” stuff came from but when I was playing yun (with Cody) he couldn’t do random ex lunges, dive kicks, spam palm to build meter etc because I wouldn’t let him (I was zoning him). Im not saying its an even matchup for Cody but yun cant get in for free at all. Feel free to ask what I was doing.
So landing a reversal on him means he has to get in again and he will have to get around the zoning to do so (and he CAN be zoned). I’m sure he’ll also take damage while he try’s to get in.
That’s not fair though. With Cody you can delay your rocks and troll with bingo. ;D
edit
fun fact: Japan’s top87 leaderboards has:
16 Yuns
9 Kens
9 Sagats
8 Yangs
7 Feis
5 C.Vipers
3 Akumas
3 Dictators
3 Giefs
3 Abels
3 Blankas
2 Makotos
2 Sakuras
2 Sims
2 Seths
2 Cammys
1 Ibuki
1 Ryu
1 Adon
1 Boxer
1 Cody
1 Rufus
1 Dee Jay
1 Guy
1 T.Hawk
1 E.Honda
That might be an indicator of what we’ll see in consoles/future tier lists. I’m surprised there are no Guiles, Chun Li and Roses in there.
mashing is def not a ‘counter’, but once in a while, when used sparingly, it has it’s uses. just like wake-up shoryu will make someone think twice before walking up for a throw, jumping in on you or starting a blockstring on wake-up, mashing makes the aggressor respect your space. now they have to think about their offense and it’s 50/50 for them as it’s 50-50 for you on defense. if they bait, that means they waited and didn’t attack you. if you fall for it, it works, but if you know the bait is coming because the mash is a tactical one, then you just succeeded in giving yourself a second to breath and instilled a little caution where once there wasn’t any.
no one ever only inputs a command once and only once…mashing, plinking and pianoing are all basically methods of making sure an input is accept…it’s just that ‘mashing’ has a negative connotation to it.
gotta agree with lollo.
you cant say mash dp is how to deal with something. its a tactic, and you cant devolve a character matchup into one tactic. dealing with a character would involve mutiple tactics, otherwise known as a strategy
well that’s assuming all the player does is mash…but in mago’s case, he’s obviously not a habitual masher. it’s a tactic he implemented at that particular point in the fight because of prior actions his opponents took. he mashed in order to increase the chances of the move registering. you can’t thumb your nose at mashing to get a move out, because it worked. if it was blocked, then the mashing was predictable and the tactic wouldn’t have been properly thought out…but it wasn’t. mago didn’t visibly mash before that, which lulled the opponent into a false sense of security…we all do it in one form or another. since the opponent didn’t even think to bait, then the mashing worked like it was supposed to and a counter move come out at the first possible moment it could have.
still, the point stands.
mashing will get you out of one situation, but not the others. what happens when your reversal is blocked? can you call that a strategy, or a way to deal with something too?
deal with yun by not having your reversal dp blocked. that sounds about as smart as mash selectively and yun is dealt with
selective or habitual, it cant be defined as a way to deal with yun.
even if you are selective, you arent going to be succesful enough for it to be thought of as a strategy
i’ll give you that, but it does prevent the divekick guesing game from being 100% in the aggressor’s favor. now there’s a wrinkle. will the guy mash? if he has two bars, he can mash and cancel out, thus making it a preventative measure and a factor that someone has to consider in their offense.
ok. so call it 80% in the dive kickers favor. reduce the percentage if your opponet has 2 bars.
dps still only do about 120-130.
if you make a bad guess you eat at least 250. if he has ultra you eat 400+. and you get to guess again.
not saying just blocking or eating a throw is good either, because he also has a command grab thats going to also get him at least 250. which is why most people think he’s too good
This EventHubs.com • View topic - Arcadia 2011: Tier List by Daigo, Mago and Tokido
and
this Versus City ? Blog Archive ? The Three Gods Rap ? Part 1
http://www.versuscity.net/2011/02/02/the-three-gods-rap-part-2/#more-1808
http://www.versuscity.net/2011/02/04/the-three-gods-rap-part-3/
I don’t agree with no Guy’s in the list after watching some Guy players though
You think Guy is a tough matchup for Yun/Fei? Or you think Guy should be in top 10 tier list?
Speaking of Guy, what buffs did he get in AE? Is he really that much better or are they minor changes?
even minor changes affect a character a lot. Vega comes to mind with
He sucked bad in vanilla, kinda sucked in super and will suck in AE. I don’t see the changed having THAT much of an effect.
Guy has crap wakeup, a giant hitbox and a non FADCable reversal so he’ll probably get owned badly by yun.
Don’t know about Fei but I can’t see Guy giving him many problems…basically the only thing he has is a good okizeme and some good frame traps with run cancel.