Nice counterpoint. I like how you avoided going into detail and called them fanboys.
It’s funny how you would use Dhalsim as an example since that’s the matchup I happen to play the most, against europe’s best Dhalsim none the less, and I feel it’s in slight favour of Sakura.
somebody tell me some damned matchups.
who does she beat that the tiers say she dosent
i think sakura is pretty good, but i dont know her well enough to talk matchups
This is what I concider her matchups to be, names in bold are ones that I concider more important than others.
**Good: **
Deejay, Dudley, Gouken, Juri, Seth
**
Favourable: **
Abel, Adon, Claw, Cody, Dan, Dhalsim, Fuerte, Feilong, Hakan, Guy, Makoto, Gen
Even:
Cammy, Chun, C.Viper, Akuma, Ibuki, Ken, Dictator, Rufus, T.Hawk
Unfavourable:
Boxer, Guile, Ryu, Blanka, Zangief, Sagat
Bad:
E.Honda, Rose
How do you find Cammy an even matchup? I’ve had some very bad experiences trying to keep Cammy from getting in and running a train on my Sak. She tends to get RIGHT past footsie range on me and theres not much I can do about it. I have a hard time anti airing her and i feel absolutely hopeless dealing with her pressure sometimes. I feel like thats at least a 4-6. Akuma i have a hard time believing is even either. One sweep from his godlike sweep and it can be GG. 4.5-5.5 at least.
These would have to be personal impressions based on local metagame
I actually base my opinion from playing against Alioune, but maybe he’s not good enough to give me a clear opinion of the matchup?
DayUn: LP/MP Sho can be done on reaction to her trying to close distance with divekicks, she can’t bait the shoryu by doing tkcs and if she does it any higher than that the shooken will punish her every time if you have the reactions for it. anti-air sho also leads to sakuras nice ambiguous xup mixups so the payoff is definitely better than the measly intial damage would make you think.
So that means she has to get in through playing footsies more, and Sakura has stronger footsies than she does since she can whiffpunish her st.hk/c.mk with c.mk x hp sho, and zone her well with her own st.hk. Sakura also has pretty good options to deal with Cammy once she gets up close cl.hp ~ os tech is really good for stopping divepressure, her c.hp ~os tech also works well untill the Cammy player becomes aware of it. j.hp ~ os low block and crouch tech is also good for escaping her pressure. So Cammy can’t auto-pilot her offense against a Sakura-player that knows what they’re doing.
Sakura’s okizeme works well against Cammy, one thing I found recently is after ex shunpu if I do c.hk I get a really strong 50/50 situation between j.hk/j.hp without having to move or change the timing of the jump. And if anything connects Sakura has the damage and stun to put fear into Cammy (as she does against every low health character). Cammy’s okizeme is of course more effective than Sakura’s in this matchup, which is why it isn’t favourable (or unfavourable) for Sakura.
While I definitely feel Alioune is a stronger player than me, I also feel that Cammy has a certain edge online (not just in this matchup), due to how her footsies are played and how difficult it becomes handling short dives that she wants to close distance with. And a large amount of Sakura’s damage is to be gained from the aa sho okizeme and whiffpunishment in footsies. When Cammy is up close it doesn’t really matter if it’s off or online. I also feel that Cammy is the undisputed best character of Super, and in AE I expect to see her in the top5.
Hmmm I have heard other good players thing that Cammy may be #1. I might buy that. Still going to keep my ears open and be open-minded, though.
I can’t really comment on how Sakura would place in a strict tier list. What i can say however (after playing against Skatan) is that contrary to what seems to be popular belief she is a really scary character to play footsies with. One cr.mk and you’re pretty much fucked if she’s got 2 bars or more. You will often be in the corner and if you’re playing a character with weak wakeup options you’re even more fucked because of her lk tatsu loops. I’m not saying she’s got superior footsies, just that she gets rewarded heavier than most of the cast for hitting her best poke.
I’ve found the c.HP OS against cammy to be worthless. Might be just me, but it feels like wind up getting beat by an ex cannon strike half the time I use it. You’re probably right about that online thing though. I developed a lot of my footsies against her online, and when i play offline, i don’t look to anti air the cannon strikes often enough. You’re definitely right about the mixup off anti air shous. Very ambiguous and more than enough damage comes off them in the long run. Akuma though? I’m not sure if thats a personal stigma, but that matchup is a total pain in the ass. These two matchups, and the gief matchup won’t be good for sakura if she intends on being top anything in AE, since those characters seem best right now. Mid tier definitely… maybe uppermid. She won’t be moving much on my personal tierlist.
Seth is a good match up for sak? Lol she cant catch seth. Seth can literally run away for 99 seconds and she really cant do a thing about it.
Of course you do know the following counter argument, to that statement is going to be. Both camps arent going to get anywhere. However I do agree with you, if Vega has a hard time catching him, Im sure Sakura is going to have a very hard time.
Since we have had this Sakura conversation 3 times already, who is better?
Yang or Yun?
Japan is riding Yun hard, and on SRK logic, since there is more of him at the top, he is better. As opposed to Yang, there aren’t any. Could Wong be wrong yet again?
Maybe they are still on that 3S trip and having Genei in SSF4 is making them jump on the wagon. Yang doesn’t seem like a slouch, but he wasn’t top tier in 3S. Yang has an unblockable set up into Ultra already supposedly (Super > 6MK > Ultra).
http://shoryuken.com/f347/just-rolling-yang-general-discussion-259903/index2.html#post9979848
As far as Yun and Yang its to soon to decide who is better. Only reason Yun is currently ranking higher is because more people have taken interest in him to see what they can get out of GJ combos.
yang is easily the harder of the 2 to learn right now. and going by sf4 logic which seems to work out mostly… the easiest characters are usually very powerful later on as well.
so, it seems bad for yang as far as being OVERALL better than yun, however japan has stated that yang is a counter for yun… whether or not its a strong counter is anyones guess.
right nowthe thing that makes yun better than yang mostly is that yun has that flying fist that moves him in easily and the ex version is completely safe… that is a powerful ass tool especially when he can combo it into ultra if it happens to hit.
however yang is shaping up to have some very decent ways into ultraas well.
right now i put yun above yang just because yun seems to get in alot easier.
if yangs start finding that position easily as well i think he may be better than yun. but of cpurse this is just 3 day info here, coyuld be completely wrong, its theoryfighter afterall.
-dime
“I think AE’s balance is better than SSF4 and SF4.
I dont think SF4 is good balance.”
http://tokidoki77.blog138.fc2.com/
I know it’s early but I think this is a good sign.
Well, flame away if I’m saying this prematurely, but if Yun has easy ultra setups, a divekick game, i-frames w/out EX, i-frames that can be FADC’d, and can move clear across the screen SAFELY for the price of one meter, I just don’t see how he won’t be the clear #1 and a contender to be almost as good as vanilla Sagat if not better.
If he has a 3 frame chainable jab or short, it’s over. It doesn’t matter if he’s low stamina. He’s flat out #1.
I mean, all these things I listed above are things that are very powerful in the SF4 engine. He will have ALL of them.
I realize Tokido said that AE may be better balanced than the almighty balance of super, but I just don’t understand HOW that could possible with Yun looking so damn S tier.
Sakura is far from being underplayed in Japan/Asia. On jp XBL there are probably more Sakura than Cammy. I guess the US players are just more pratical or something. Same can be said for Akuma and Zengief.
yeah, exactly. yang has everything mentioned above as well except for the lunging ex special.
on paper they certainly look to be as close to s-tier without being straight broken… as it gets.
but who knows “on paper” theories can go bad quickly. one thing you left out that is huge as well in the sf4 engine that they both have is an untechable grab… which i know for a fact that yang at least can combo into ultra… yun probably can as well, this type of setup being on divekick characters screams broken as fuck.
but this is sf4 we’re talking about, things have ways of working themselves out.
one thing im thinking is that ae is just a “loketest” for for console edition, we all know that capcom cant make things woithout changing stuff for no reason. if yun and yang end up being broken we can maybe expect them to get the shaft in console edition.
ala chun in 3S to vanilla, and vanilla sagat to super…
-dime
Yun’s EX lunge seems to have fairly long startup. I assume people will hit him out of it more often once people get used to him.
I think I’ve only seen it connect to Ultra in the corner, but I’m not sure if that’s just an issue of difficult timing. Seems like a tight link.