And who did Gen beat in Vanilla? At this point, its not about who you beat, its how supposedly retarded tool X is.
blanka
Then it was clear that Gen needed the nerfing. Being able to beat one of the strongest characters in the game clearly warranted it.
Dragon Punch also needs nerfing naow. Make it 5 frame start up with 3 frames of invulnerability. Make it happen Capcom, having the ability to throw shit out like that at anytime during the match for free is so retarded. It’s such a momentum killer.
I do get gridman’s point. Its not the move, its the players bitching like if they are entitled to something.
However it was unwarranted, but it really screwed up a lot of characters that had a difficult time getting in to begin with. Capcom should stop with teh balancing and just make over powered broken stuff. Because balancing sure isn’t working out for them.
yea, but her pokes got worse in AE. Although far fierce (we think) may have improved, her normals are across the board worse. low strong isnt as good, neither is far forward. Lost her meter gain off fbs and lost super trap…all of that had nothing to do with U2. You’d think they’d give her back her vanilla SF4 sweep (it was faster in Vanilla, nerfed in Super), but no, its exactly the same. So basically they made her 100% worse across the board without giving her anything to compensate. And for what reason? Because U2 was too good? LOL.
What I know is, almost all of the time, if I panicked/mashed u2 on wakeup vs a good player after getting fucked up, it wouldnt do anything to turn the match around for me except make them block for 1 second to continue rushing my ass down.
It woulda been all good if they kept U2 the same without the invincibility, but no, they didnt even do that. hitbox is smaller now i believe, ive had bison lk scissor me when i was blocking + orbs without getting hit, at all. Pretty wack.
gridman: Yeah its true there are far worse chars than Rose (Vega wasnt bad in Super either) but thats my point, i think everyone should be buffed up, not down, and I don’t mind chars having unique tools. SF4 series is way too homogenized in general…normally this works in games with a open ended engine, but sf4s engine is quite limited - especially when the new chars and some of the low tier in the last game has crazy offense now. Not none of this lets make offense stronger while we make defense weaker garbage, which is what AE is now.
meanwhile chars like makoto get braindead 40% damage in the corner and can just get in free sometimes. yea thats hella fair :rolleyes:
i miss vanilla days , when all we had to argue about was sagat .
Sermon brother…
Huh. The dev blog indicated that they are the same, what changed?
low strong has an extended hurtbox (moved forward), same range. stand forward is just shorter all around (used to hit at the tip of her toe, moved to around her ankle).
i don’t think it was faster, but it was much safer. -3f on block vs -8f in super. don’t forget they also nerfed the range on piety. generally her footsies got worse in each succeeding game.
On what basis? There aren’t any pictures of hurtboxes for console super.
what? yes there are. an earlier build perhaps, but a ton of footage was released.
http://img3.imagebanana.com/img/39bgpzm1/RoseAE2.png
http://img3.imagebanana.com/img/4wfgg9bi/RoseAE.png
http://otersi.com/00_interesting_frames/rose_cmp.png
That’s Console Super’s Rose cr. mp
http://shoryuken.com/f315/super-street-fighter-iv-hitboxes-234787/index3.html#post8856645
These are coming from Capcom’s hitbox videos.
Those are most likely collision boxes, not hurtboxes.
If those were the hurtboxes, you would basically never trade with a normal ever. Basically all normals have some sort of hurtbox near their hitbox, but they are never shown on those pictures. It’s especially obvious with jumping attacks.
Also, I think there is something wrong with the Rose pictures, it looks like they’re at the wrong angle. That’s probably why people think s.MK looks off. If you look at Rose’s face, or the button on her coat near her leg (which is only visible in one picture) then it’s obvious that the angle is different, so if you try to judge the position of the hitbox compared to the character model from that picture you’ll get the wrong idea.
And you’re wrong. They’re hurtboxes.
Wait, do you actually know what you’re looking at? Read the post I linked to. The red is the hitbox. The green is the hurtbox.
nerfed pokes or not, fire and forget ultras are stupid
she can still use it as pressure relief, she just cant do it as a reversal or on wake up. im sure if she finds herself being pushed into the corner that she can still random activate to reset the spacing
on the subject of matchups, since we are talking rose, are there any characters who she loses to now because of the changed ultra.
pretty sure she still loses to the same characters either way. seems like they just removed a single poor design choice with her.
the collision-boxes are the solid yellow rectangles in the body and face of the character. while the angle of the character slightly changes as they move across the 2d plane with respect to the camera, a cursory overlay in photoshop that lines up the hurtboxes shows that c.mp has a larger hurtbox and s.mk is shorter overall.
(the animation also shifts a little bit during the move’s active frames, explaining how the scarf and purple stuff around rose’s fist is a little different in the screencaps - but the hitboxes stay more or less static during those frames.)
I was replying to blackadde’s post. In the pictures from that set, honestly I never even noticed the hurtboxes because the lines are so faint. Regardless, it’s a very different frame.
I haven’t seen the pictures from your post before. These are clearer, but it is still the wrong frame. It’s hard to tell, but look above her left shoulder. Her scarf is in different positions compared to the dangly strand of hair. If it’s possible to check the videos for all active frames and find the one that corresponds to the AE picture, then it would be possible to find if anything changed. (The hurtbox is slightly different between your picture and blackadde’s after all - in one, it ends before the first half of the hitbox, in the other it ends just into the second half.)
on paper, the chars who i thought rose would lose to because of u2 nerf are ibuki, viper, abel solely because u2 cant be used on wakeup.
viper i can confirm from first hand experience, is definitely way harder. i cant confirm the others though, ive only played against yipes abel once or twice which isnt enough to really tell me how the matchup changed.
nope, she really cant. best thing to do if you see her activate, walk at her and crouch block. i would never try to run away and give her space cause thats what she wants.
i remember trying to play alioune in this matchup alot (cammy/rose is not good for rose anyways, but…) he would os safejump me in the corner and he would block then keep divekicking my ass lol. i couldnt even escape the corner, much less “get out of jail for free”
blackadde, i forgot about the piede being faster. but yeah her footsies get worse and worse.
meter nerf makes life more difficult for her too, since a lot of the longer combos have to end in ex spiral (char dependent, but still, its nto good)
random activate+ a couple safe spirals?
not a total reset or get out of jail free, but your back wouldnt still be on the wall, would it?
i admit i dont know rose all that well, so that could be theory from my ass speculation
the reward probrablly still wouldnt be as good as you get from just picking the other ultra tho. i admit its a tool nerf, i just want to know how much it really changed her matches. you said viper for sure would be tougher, but are we talking like wayyyy tougher, or just get beat up a little more than you normally would, tougher?
my point was that the bad matches would still be bad matches, just the characters who had a tougher time dealing with her normals/zoning would be able to keep pressing the momentum that they didnt get easily in the first place
im sure theres a dan player or something, somewhere rejoicing because of the nerf
All the Rose players bitching about the U2 nerf, try playing it from the other side. Try having Makoto’s wakeup game. Also try working you ASS off to get through Rose’s obstacle course of pokes and fireballs and actually landing some good damage on her just to have her pop U2 and totally reset your momentum. You’ll see thing in an entirely different light I assure you.
i play both rose (vanilla + super) AND makoto so i actually do know what it’s like. rose was shit tier in vanilla and she’s probably going back to the ghetto. personally i think u2 was pretty dumb and needed to be toned back, but they could have given her something to make up for it - like having MK spiral always connect after a landed c.mp or her vanilla sweep. or giving her some kind of way to combo into U1 that isn’t 3-meter and corner specific (focus crumple from ex spark). instead they just nerfed her even harder for reasons that are totally unclear to me.