Viper can be pretty ridiculous. She’s still got vanilla damage 50% combos that lead into stun on one more jab in a game where everyone is trying to land 80 damage pokes.
I play a offensive oriented Vega. Much like Cat-K, but with more Cosmic Heel pressure like Makoto. Vega’s tools and pokes really are not suited for defensive play. They come of as offensive defensive pokes. by not giving the opponent breathing room and pushing them to the corner seems the most effective way of playing him. your idea of playing Vega properly is Joz model is it not. Very defensive oriented play style. And since you have been around that playstyle maybe its the one you think is best idk? Any who In AE though, early Vega models from Vanilla and Joz very refined defensive play style will work and probably be the model to follow. If Vega goes up in the list im going to be very confused since he lost his most powerful tools.
But Cosmic Heel was Vega’s best move in Super and Vanilla. In AE its going to be cr.mk.
cosmic heel is just a whiff punisher… whether its a whiffed SRK or a poke, you use df+rh to get that tasty 250 damage. but it has 14 frames of startup… you can’t pressure ppl with moves like that. you use it to make ppl scared to press buttons, making Vega’s other great options (c.mp, s.lk and kara throw) more effective. one thing is for sure tho cosmic heel is absolutely not vega’s best move. highest reward sure, but it has a correspondingly high risk factor to go with it.
joz’s style isn’t really defensively oriented either. I noticed he plays a lot of online matches like that… if the other guy is playing a dumb manner, the easiest way to beat them is just to sit back and let them make their mistakes and punish them over and over again.
even at the high level, everything he does is to create situations that only Vega benefit from. joz model yeah, but joz & tatsu both have roughly the same style and they are the two most successful vegas I’ve seen so that’s gotta be how its done.
You never seen Makoto Cat-K, and iirc Neo right? That is the model to follow. they use Cosmic Heel a lot to make Vega’s kara throw game scary, especially Makoto. (Yeah I dick ride Japan when it comes to Vega, North American Vega’s don’t even come close) They are the most succesful Vega’s to date. We had this discussion in the Vega boards. there are those who use Cosmic Heel offensively to start mix ups, and those who use it to punish things like Joz.
and yes it is (Cosmic Heel), followed up by cr.mk. Sure you can’t just throw it out there, but you certainly can hide it and use it for offense. cr.mp does not even compare to Cosmic Heel. We also had this discussion there. Even if its a combination tool (Cosmic Heel) it ties his game nicely, and makes it viable and scary. Again there are those who say Cosmic Heel and those who say cr.mp is king.
But Tatsu is much prettier, so he wins this comparison.
[sarcasm]
???
Im lost. 
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its true. I thought people were exaggerrating when they talked of Tatsus prettiness, but after seeing him on stream at Crossroads he seriously is the most luscious SF player in all the world
Makoto is hands down number 1 as far as all-time Vegas go. But Tatsu’s number 2 in my opinion. Cat-K is very good, but his offense is very linear. He doesn’t push the tempo, he doesn’t pressure the opponent enough and he lacks in blockstrings and hit confirms. His offense is much sloppier than Tatsu’s. Tatsu Is just too smooth and on point with his game.
Tatsu has some of the best defense of anyone I’ve seen, and his offense is relentless. He’s super consistent with his BnBs and tough 1 framers. You rarely even see Cat-K attempt 1 framers, and doesn’t punish opponents mistakes as hard as he should. The only thing I can think of where Cat-K has the advantage would be in wall dives but even with those he gets punished hard too much. Joz plays alot like Cat-K sans the risky wall dives and plus more pokes. But their offenses are far more linear than Makoto or Tatsu.
Oh and yes Cat-K is also Araidon
What are people general thoughts on AE balance? So far I dont think the game is more balanced than Super, tiers just seem to be different.
I still think it´s too early to talk about yun/yang, but yun´s ex lunge is definetly one of the dumbest things I´ve seen. The game already has things such like chicken wing as retarded bad designed move, did we really need any more?
So how about Sakura? Mentioning her usually starts 2-3 pages worth of controversy.
and how would you go about fixing it? Some moves are just retarded from a design perspective. Fireball’s are very retarded because of the space they control, but look what the did. They toned them down and they are ass. Vega’s wall dive is just a broken move, but they made it into a 1 frame throw with 30+ frames of recovery, and slowed it down. Which is ass in this game. Guile’s Flash Kick was supposedly retarded back then and look how that turned out and now it happened to Sonic Boom. Super’s Chicken Wing was the original Chicken Wing from Vanilla, but it got toned down just a tad bit and then it became such a bad move.
You cant tone stuff down with out it becoming ass, or losing applicability.
You forgot about Sagat’s tiger knee which made your character so free.
I guess I did.
On the discussion of Vega, I strongly agree with the offensive style. How are you supposed to play defensively when you don’t have the proper tools? :lol:
Yeah Vega’s normals can be cute but it simply isn’t enough. Anyone with a dive kick makes Vega free. Anyone with a mixup game makes Vega free. Anyone with a 3 frame normal makes it extremely rough on Vega. It’s terrible.
On the topic of AE Vega, you certainly can’t use CH as a offensive tool anymore. I’ve yet to be punished from using it, but at the same time all I can really do now is backdash and be fearful of when I throw it out. CH’s BEST ranges have been neutralized by the nerf (kara throw range). Zangief is a nightmare now (had to say it), as if it wasn’t hard enough, and Vega’s already limited mix up game is now near non-existent as a whole.
Also while we’re talking about c.mk buff… It’s really good. Better than I had initially thought. I knew it was gonna be good, but wow. It’s just too bad it happens to be effective at the same range a jump in fucks Vega over .
Lastly, you can still get off your EX-FBA’s during footsies. What you have to do now is link with c.mk>c.jab>c.strong now. The only problem with that is you can’t be max c.mk distance.
At the very least it shouldn’t leave yun at frame advantage on block, that’s just retarded.
THat is my issue with that combo. It has to up close, it does not even work on mid range because of weird hit boxes. Do you know if they fixed that (stuff whiffing during combo’s)? an easy test would be doing st.lk - cr.lp - cr.mp xx EX FBA on Balrog. If it hits they fixed the hit boxes.
@ Traxus
and then the move suddenly finds itself to be not as good or useful. You remove plus frames, but make it reallly tough to stuff. You make it beyond easy to stuff but give it plus frames. Which is it? Just dont chose both options like they did on Sagat.
Sagat’s Tiger Knee could have been fixed by making MK TK +0 when spaced and LK TK +2/3 and keeping the damage distribution. But we can’t have nice things now right Capcom?
im unsure if he’s at a frame advantage on block. i blocked it quite a few times and if there was an advantage it was minimal. is there an actual number we have or are people making shit up? maybe i wasnt at max range?
what do you mean? i scarcely had a problem with hitboxes in super. st.lk>cr.jab>cr.strong was always heavily spacing dependant. does it miss on balrog in super? only hitbox i have a problem with is trying to link cr.jab after st.fierce on all characters
ill check it out for you next time im at my arcade.
Ono during an interview about the 3DS port
source: Super Street Fighter IV 3DS - interview with Yoshi Ono | GamesRadar
It whiffs on balrog and a bunch of other characters. Alex made a list of who it works on and who it does not work on. cr.mk - cr.lp at mid distance has a tendency to miss on Zangief Balrog Abel and a bunch of others usually the ones where st.lk combo’s are very spacing dependent or it the combo just does not work on. Even if they move is physically hitting him during the combo it still misses. And its not limited to the combo as well, sometimes a raw cr.mp misses on those guys even though its touching them. Cosmic Heel has this issue as well, its really annoying.
U2, f+lp, air grab, f+mp, s.fp, f+fp, cross under ultra, nj.fp, lp slide, and c.mp are all anti air so I’m guessing you aren’t a Hakan player.