I think discussing their tier position is dumb when we know next to nothing about them and that includes matchups.
we’ve already seen what they can do (especially e.ryu who is a mix between ryu and akuma), there is more than enough info to speculate.
I’m sure it couldn’t be worse than chasing our tails in more Akuma discussion.
I can’t see Evil Ryu being top tier, high maybe.
His matchup numbers will be practically the same as Ryu’s because the tools are mostly the same, except for the slower cr.MK. The teleport will help with the matchups where Ryu is on defense most of the time, like Abel and Fei Long. But the low stamina will make other matchups worse, particularly Viper and Zangief.
His damage is higher though, and his sweep is semi-safe when spaced correctly. I think he’ll be right next to Ryu on the tier list. True to character, he’s just a variation.
Oni will take more time to figure out, his specials all do different things but I still don’t really know what they’re for, and I haven’t figured out his footsies, either.
Evil Ryu’s speed on basic things like walking, jumping, dashing, FA is all around just ridiculously fast. But what scares me the most is his 12F startup / 36F total fireball combined with an invincible meterless non-charge non-safejumpable 3 frame DP.
To compare:
Ryu’s hadouken: 13F startup / 45F total
Sagat’s high tiger: 11F startup / 39F total
Evil Ryu’s hadouken: 12F startup / 36F total
Guile’s sonic booms: 9F startup / 29-33F total
Frame data on these two characters are out?
where did you get this info? Sounds too good to be true
I’ve got about 20 Oni / Evil Ryu videos downloaded from before they were taken off of youtube, and you can use these videos to determine basic framedata such as startup and recovery.
The 12F startup can be seen any time ER does a close normal xx hadou. The 36F total animation can be seen in the video titled “SSFIVAE JR RODRIGUEZ Evil Ryu VS Oni Akuma Gameplay At Arcade Infinity On 01-22-11” @ 0:33 (this vid is 2:14 in total length). Watch as ER does cr.mp xx hadouken. Then framestep through the entire hadouken animation once it starts. The first frame that shows is frame 2, as you can see the afterimage of frame 1 behind it and then it shows every 2nd frame thereafter for every frame of video. Count your way up to 36, then notice how ER starts a forward jump immediately after that (4F prejump), and there you have it: 36 frames on regular hadouken. I’ve also counted it in a half dozen other places and it’s always the same.
I’m compiling a list of framedata for Evil Ryu and Oni and will post it up when I finish. In the meantime or if you’re skeptical, check out what I did with AE Cammy’s framedata by clicking the link in my sig. :tup:
do you noticed that those youtube videos does not run at 60 fps as the game does? You cant count frames in a video thats running at 25 or 30 fps. Its easy to see that e.ryu’s hadoken recover isnt even near guile’s sonic boom recover, its way slower. I think you would need to have a known reference in the same video. And only IF the video´s framerate is constant during its entire duration.
But i hope you are right about the startup, ryu isnt ryu when you cant press with c.mk xx hadoken, and thats the case actually with the original Ryu.
Yeah exactly.
Find some 60fps vids and then you can actually calculate frame data.Gilley showed us that before SSFIV came out.
Youtube videos are 30fps max even if you up 60fps.
E.Ryu’s fireball feels much slower than that.
well if they are fixed at 30fps, and the guy who recorded did it capturing 60 fps, then we can to get pretty solid frame data.
You can count frames if the videos are constant fps, which these ones do seem to be.
However I automatically assumed they were a constant 30 fps without first checking as I did with other AE vids I’ve looked at. These ones are all a constant 25F for some reason, which explains why I thought he was so fast, my mistake!
So yeah nvm the fireball is probably 14/44, same as Akuma’s.
I could probably still figure out basic framedata, but given how 25 isn’t a clean multiple of 60, it would be a bit messy. I’ll wait until someone with a 30 fps camera captures some stuff.
Air Ryu’s link to the Daigo, Tokido and Mago top 10 tier list.
Air (Ryu): SSF4 AE Top 10 by Daigo/Tokido/Mago
Where does everyone else fit if these are the top 10?
No charge characters in their top 10, and I can’t say I’m surprised. Everybody was whining so hard about the charge characters in super that they stopped thinking about what changes would make or break some of their real gameplay, I hate to say it but it seems when it comes to charge characters the scrubs got their wishes in AE.
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Just… ouch.
i dont know how to take that list. they think their characters are the best which may be biased because they beat the hell out of everybody anyway
How? Just accept feilong is top tier, you feilong mainers have been defending it since super release. There is nothing wrong with it.
Daigo doesnt play fei, tokido only plays him for counterpicking purposes and mago while being an incredible player always picks the strongest characters. He didnt drop sagat and picked fei because he suddenly became a bruce lee fan.
Charge characters will be dominant again in SSF4T, bet on it.
(I’m predicting turbo, they can’t leave the damn game alone lol)
Why ISN’T Fei Long top tier?