SSF4 Tier List Thread REBOOT Super + AE (Updated: 02-01-09)

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
621

you cry about akumas health a lot. like everytime someone says he is top tier. you never point to his matchups that he mostly wins, instead you talk about how you can get wake up ultra’ed

since you are going to play that card, did you ever think about how much risk the opponent is taking by trying to wake up ultra vs akuma working his vortex. if you safe jumped as akumaor worked your options the right way, you basically wont ever get hit by the ultra. mathematically he probrablly has a less than 10% chance of catching you. most ultras lose to safe jumps and or blocking, and the consequence is eating akumas best combo, or worse yet a raging demon

from akumas side, hes going to beat most reversal DP’s, which either get stuffed cold, miss completely, or trade at best. also the opponent is guessing between 50/50 blocking left or right, and trying to avoid eating the demon throw. which most players would take over a combo from trying a foolish reversal or back dash attempt. so you end up blocking and akuma keeps right on safely pressuring. something good is going to come from him working his vortex, and akuma is probrablly taking a 10% risk of getting ultraed. so you end up with a 90% chance of something good happening

id call that low risk. if we did real math and i wasnt just pulling numbers out of my ass the risk would probrably be lower

622

i absolutely agree. but the problem is that there are lot of badly designed things in sf4.

-dime

623

CW for Example ;).

624

i wouldnt go that far. they got rid of most of the retarded bits with characters movesets. the other things like dp fadc’s and engine issues mostly come down to player prefference

625

chocolo how do you view the Akuma/Bison match-up?

626

this. Definitely in the top 3 of SF4’s most retarded moves. Thank god they got rid of the invulnerability in AE

627

I think It is a 5-5. Bison has good tools for escape of akuma’s vortex and he also has good footsies.

628

^ And then theres this: [media=youtube]POqq00aicXY[/media]

629

One of my biggest issues with the game is the preponderance of relatively safe, damaging mixups that loop into each other easily.

Acceptable design for a mixup should be: Safe, Damaging, Loopable - pick 2.

Even Tokido says SFIV is the most random FG…

630

how many characers have that kind of mix up tho. akuma and viper are the only 2 i can think of. maybe abel, but id qualify him as medium risk.

631

I lol’d.

edit: I think Bison Akuma is even. Playing footsies with Akuma is tricky because of his walkspeed and his sweep, so he gains a lot more off his knockdowns than Bison does. Maybe a little analogous to Chun vs Ryu, where Chun has better pokes, but Ryu can do a lot more damage off a successful connect.

On a side note, I’ve seen the comparison of character walkspeeds, but that was only the forward walk. Does anybody know how fast characters walk backward? That’s just as important in footsies.

632

I lol’d. This was priceless.

633

Thank you for the replies. Yeah I had heard a few Akuma players say it was Bisons favour but I always thought it was a 5-5 MU.

634

Seth, ibuki, gief And possibly fuerte I would put up there as well, though fuerte is obviously arguable.

When I say that there is bullshit stuff in the game I mainly mean things that seem to break the game design purposefully. Some of these that I will
Mention I think are alright others I think are really stupid but they all seem to really break “the rules” that capcom designs into the game:

Rufus cr.hp (why does an obvious in your face character get such a long ranged poke)

Bison lk scissors (safe on block focus breaker) general rule of thumb on vanilla was armor breakers are either unsafe on block or have lots of startup, bisons lk scissors and sagats tks broke those rules.

Adon jag kick ( another safe on block breaker, only balanced by a slower startup time and the fact that it’s adon that has them.

All the “divekick” moves. ( these are totally anti streetfighter IMHO. In sf4 it seems that divekicks are the only way capcom
Knows how to make a character “offensive” I just call it bad game design.

Fuerte command grab ( a command grab where you can get punished for correctly avoiding it with a neutral jump, the only way to actually do damage to the damn thing is to hit it on it’s way in, completely stupid IMHO.

Shoto 3 frame, invincible, no ex meter needed, srk. ( completely stupid IMHO. Shotos should have to use meter for the invincibility or for the 3 frame startup, shouldn’t have both for free.

Ryu 50/50 after throw (he’s a keep away character on 4 it just feels weird to me that he has such an easy spammable access to a 50/50)

None of these are overpowered or break the game in my mind, just that the game seems to be all over the place like it doesn’t know if it’s streetfighter, third strike or a versus game. Which is just annoying as all hell to me.

-dime

635

I think Cammy’s going to plummet to the bottom of the tier list once people realize they’re not dealing with Super Cammy anymore, and they have a lot more offensive options open to them now when dealing with her.

636

zangief low risk character yep

and rufus c.hp and scissor kicks on the same tier as tortilla or 3f dps its just wow

637

i agree with ibuki, but not really with seth and not any more with gief.

seth dosent have anything to keep looping you into safely, and gief wont be getting the same safe crossup vortexes without green hand knocking down. also fuertes mixup is not safe nor would i call it damaging.

so ibuki, akuma, and viper. akuma being the standout because he has plenty of fundamentals to back up his bullshit

on the subject of dive kicks, they should just have given all of them poor hitboxes. that way they wont be as abuseable as an instant offence, and there wouldnt be such a need for hieght restrictions. that way every character would have a low risk anti air option for dealing with them

638

I think you’re being a little to rigid here.

Firstly there Is the issue of subjectivity. Most things are unsafe in sf4, if we take an extremely strict viewpoint of things. Damaging is similarly subjective. IMHO a good thing to think about is whether or not the mixup does more than a throw, if it does it can be considered “damaging” imo.

On hit, Seth usually gets another chance at a mixup. That would be considered a loop IMHO even if it isn’t into the same exact mixup before it.

@sharin

LoL

-dime

639

For sure. Coming straight out of a mixup and having to guess between low, high, throw or command grab isn’t really fun. I’m sure it could work well in another FG but it doesn’t feel like it belongs in SF.

640

Only things I find odd in SF4 are things that can’t be safe jumped (3 frame DPs and Adon’s wake up) and 1-2 frame Supers that aren’t command grabs or power ups.

Adon got his wake up adjust, DPs they seem to be absolutely fine with and there are ways to stuff DPs on wakeup if you hit it after invincibility, 1 frame Supers aren’t a big deal I guess since EX meter is so precious but they still seem out of place (only backed up that it’s only the arcade SF4 characters that have 1-2 frame Supers).

Not complaining, they just seem to be oddities.