As a counter statement to that I’d just say “The absence of evidence isn’t the evidence of absence”
Would it at all be incorrect to assume there’s at least some level of bias in their choice?
Just because they are Japanese doesn’t mean they’re completely subjugated from the ideals of the rest of the world.
Japanese people are people. That means they are just as easily biased as the rest of us.
I don’t disagree but the reason people flock to Daigos character choice is, firstly, the entire fighting game world outside Japan wants to be Japan and Daigo is THE Japanese player according to the US and Europe. Second, Daigo is just another top player in Japan. He is not looked at the way the rest of us look at him. I’m not saying the Japanese don’t have bias but their FG history has clearly shown that they are not as obsessed with “who does BLANK play? Really, well I ought to try that character as well” Like I said, character strength matters to the Japanese much more than who the famous guy uses.
That’s just a stereotype though.
We don’t really know Japanese players mainly rely on character strength more than who the pros use.
Not all care what the pros plays, but some do.
Same could be said for players in any region.
Also, if you don’t mind me asking, could you please space out your sentences a little.
The whole big block o’ text thing is a little hard on the eyes.
not a stereotype. they dont really do the whole “player worship” the way america does.
sure you have your stalker types. but those types of people arent relative to being japanese
Dunno man those guys sing songs about Daigo there. I’m pretty sure we don’t.
The Japanese don’t admire Daigo any less than everyone else. He’s up at the top of the new arcade rankings just as he was in vanilla. Ask their best players who they think the best in the world are and Daigo will be in their top 3.
Stereotype: A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.
Saying that Japanese players don’t care about who pros use would fall into the whole “oversimplified conception” part, wouldn’t you say?
Problem is you seem to be looking at Japanese players as total entity when in fact they’re individuals like you or I.
You can’t say they don’t care about who pros use. That has no physical backing or proof.
Anyways, this topic isn’t getting anywhere.
You can’t say they don’t pick who’s popular.
There’s no way to do so unless you went down and asked every last player in Japan why they play who they play.
And with that I end my roll in this conversation, good day gents.
i would like to hear this, “daigo song”, you speak of
Japanese players worship Daigo just as much as Americans do. I remember last years SBO the team that beat Daigo’s team were so excited and one guy even said “I can’t believe we defeated the god”.
Best American player uses Rufus. One of the least used characters online is… Rufus. Daigo used Guile in a major tourney. What happened? People flocked to the Guile forum and perhaps picked him up… only to drop him days later.
The truth of the matter is, people want easy characters. Seth isn’t easy. Viper isn’t easy. Rufus online isn’t easy (B&B has a 1 one frame link). Hell, even using Ryu at a high level isn’t easy. That’s why you don’t see a lot of those characters in those situations (Seth/Viper in general, Rufus online, Ryu at high level).
I mean, hell, the longest win streak in arcades is what? Over 100 wins? With T HAWK!? That doesn’t mean he’s a good character (though it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s bad either). The BP ranking tier list or whatever says nothing about popularity. It just says Seth specialists tend to be good with him. And who’s surprised? When you buff up his health, that means they can make more mistakes and still win leading to more BP than expected. Even though they took away one of his best tools (j. hp), it’s not like all high level Seths did was spam j. hp anyway. Good players adapt. Which is apparently what the Seth players in Japan did.
maybe behind closed doors or something. i dunno
didnt daigo say he is supprised we treat him like a celebrity. he said it isnt like that over there.
maybe the aura wears off if you see him at the arcade every day.
The slightest kiss of the wind and you guys derail like a train on a track made of butter.
Loled pretty hard
“daigo song”: ??? Full??? ? ???(??) sung by Hayao himself
Apparently its called called “Can’t beat Daigo Umehara”
And another song: [media=youtube]rzsxv-geGtg&feature=related[/media]
So many songs…
Anything is possible. Skill gap? Maybe. I think 20-30k BP is a pretty sizable amount of games played. Even people in America are winning matches against Japanese players that come here. Not by a land slide, but it’s possible, and Daigo seemingly loses more in Japan than his track record out elsewhere.
Most people probably have experience with console SSF4. I think it’s just a stigma that people went from vanilla to AE. A lot of people definitely picked up console SSF4 on either systems.
Yun and Yang are not that hard to catch up to. They’re still stuck in the SF4 engine which isn’t overly complicated as so many people got into and are getting into SF4.
Uhh, my point isn’t that Daigo is great and he does worse in Japan than America(I don’t know where this came from), my point is that when you are doing average BP rankings less popular characters are going to have lower BP because there are not only less players of said character(which also equates to less players putting the massive amount of time in you need to accrue lots of BP), but the best players are not playing those characters generally. There is a skill gap when you are talking about several hundred players, and the rankings don’t always show it but I bet the 25th Yun probably has more BP than the 5th Dan.
I never said anything about experience. My point is that these players by and large have been playing the same characters SINCE arcade vanilla, which is why the arcade vanilla cast is so well represented in the BP rankings. Most players want to play with what is familiar and get a handle on the changes to their main before branching out.
Once again what? Tell me who the great Japanese Seth players are other than Hiropon? Now go look at who is playing Yun in AE. It’s a vast difference in the quality of player when you have freaking Kindevu and Daigo playing your character and it is obviously going to skew any top 10 ranking when they are that freaking good. You can’t just say “well they are all japanese”
Edit: I’m really not sure you get what I’m saying at all. Yun probably isn’t in his own tier. Blanka probably isn’t the 9th best character in the game. Just people need to take the BP rankings with a grain of salt is all and not compare them to a character’s placement on an actual matchup chart because of various factors.
Put it this way, this tier is list no less more convincing than American tier lists.
I think part of it is that in this thread, and the other incarnations of it people are always just “OMG CODY IS NOT C TIER RRRHGHGHH” instead of actually discussing the matchups and why said character should move up and down. There was just a long discussion about how Cody is obviously better than Hawk and vice versa, but there was very little discussion of the matchup numbers given which is dumb, it was just a lot of discussing tools.
If you think the IPW list is bad or what have you(I certainly don’t agree on the numbers given for my character, but overall it isn’t bad), you should discuss whats wrong with it instead of being worried about who is in what tier.
I don’t get whats so bullshit and theoretical about matchup numbers in comparison to some big number that can be influenced by the quality of competition, the quality of player, character unfamiliarity, character popularity and a host of other factors.
Add up the “arcades/console” comparison, where 85% of the world uses console SSFIV, and where AE is. Most guys talking tiers don’t seem to have played AE altogether. Can’t say I don’t blame though. I’m gonna get my AE fix now that the damn game is 50 cents to play at my aracade now…
Nail is rubbing its head in pain. It appears it just got hit.
This thread would be mayor of SRK discussion city if we stuck to mostly analyzing the individual match ups. That requires too much thought and leaves everyone vulnerable to the possibility that they are not correct about everything (in the thunderdome of Internet discussion, where you’re either correct or fucking dumb, it’s deadly to be openly wrong about something for the sake of discussion). We have hamburgers to eat and Facebook messages to check anyways. It’s quicker, safer and easier to just be vague and angry at other peoples’ lists.